Several inconsistencies in the server continuity

[i dont wanna od in LA]

Please, read the whole post before you jump to replying and inciting drama. I'd like to raise a serious concern and I'd appreciate if this dicussion could remain civil.

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As it currently stands, the server continuity states that quote "San Andreas replaces California. San Andreas is a sunny, progressive state on the West Coast, encompassing Los Santos, San Fierro and some other major cities. While strongly influenced by California, San Andreas is a separate state. For example, we do not use California law in-character and instead use law written IC and available on the forums. As an American state, federal law also applies unless otherwise stated. While IC government agencies take a strong influence from their Californian counterparts, the IC history and culture around these departments may vary from real life. This also applies to sports teams from California which are replaced along with the state itself." Source: https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/42126-continuity-summary/

What does this mean in practice? San Andreas replaces California, but does not inherit its' culture or history. The issue araises when certain people act as if the State was "created" in 2017 (i.e. when the server was opened) and as if the State of San Andreas had no history pre-2017. I believe that all of us can agree that this is a pretty ridiculous approach and does more harm than good. What I believe should be the general consensus is; certain events from real life Cali should be lory-fied to fit into the game realm. Let's take a look at the LSSD thread for example: 
 

Quote

The Los Santos Sheriff's Department was established in 1850 shortly after the Mexican-American War. After the founding of the independent San Andreas Republic and the voluntary annexation by the United States, law enforcement was subsumed under the Los Santos Rangers (which became the Los Santos Police Department) and the Los Santos Sheriff.]
 

The "frontier era" of Los Santos saw the worst era of organized crime in the county, as the gold rush brought a massive population explosion and crime. The Union Pacific Railroad Company brought another explosion, and it caused a string of 15 Sheriffs, several of which were killed in gunfights, to enter a veritable revolving door. Up until after the civil war, the Sheriff's Department consisted of the Sheriff and cronies as deputies.

 

In the early 1900s, the Sheriff's Department officially became an actual institution of permanent individuals rather than the Sheriff and his posse. It was not until 1930 when deputies formally adopted uniforms and jails were administered by the Sheriff's Department. During the 1930s, the Sheriff's Department assisted the Los Santos Police Department in the "red squad" era, notably attacking the Socialist Party of America and breaking up union-organized events.

 

In 1947, the Sheriff's Department hired the first female Deputy Sheriff within the nation. 

 

The 1950s to the 1970s saw the most turbulent era of operation within the Sheriff's Department, especially during the infamous 1961 Davis Race Riots. The Sheriff's Department assisted the LSPD in quelling the large-scale civil unrest, but it was one of the most massive events of the era up until the 1992 Jim Queen riots.

 

Former Sheriff Peter "Pico" Collins headed the department from 2009 until his downfall in 2017. During Collins' reign corruption was rampant and close-knight deputy gangs were prominent. Within the ranks of the county's finest were individuals keen to oppress less fortunate individuals in the county jail system and rural towns. Following whistle-blower tips, an ACLU lawsuit brought down the Sheriff after the FBI took interest as part of their public corruption mandate. Pico and his Undersheriff were both sentenced to federal prison.
Source: https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/18219-los-santos-county-sheriffs-department/

1961 Davis Race Riots in this case would be the 1961 Watts Race riots, 1992 Jim Queen riots would be the 1992 Rodney King riots, and Peter Collins would be Lee Baca. Anybody with some slight understanding and interest in LA would obviously understand those references, however some people decide not to acknowledge them and act as if the history of Los Santos was completely blank pre-2017.

Moving on, if we look at the LSPD thread it also does reference real life events:
 

Quote

Downtown Vinewood Shootout

On February 28th 1997, the Los Santos Police Department responded to a bank robbery that would set in motion major changes within the Department. Using body armour and a variety of high-calibre weapons, Garry Phelps Jr. and his accomplice Emilio Materasu attempted to steal a large sum of money from the vaults at the Pacific Standard Public Deposit Bank on Vinewood Boulevard. Officers arriving on the scene reported hearing gunfire from inside the bank and requested additional backup whilst holding the perimeter. 

 

Shortly before 0930, Phelps exited the building from the north side and immediately opened fire on nearby officers - wounding several officers and civilians, as well as forcing the LSPD’s helicopter to fall back before retreating inside again. Shortly afterwards, Materasu exited the building alongside him and engaged officers with automatic gunfire. The officers, who were armed with their standard-issue 9mm or .38 calibre weapons, were unable to penetrate the body armour worn by the suspects, and due to a combination of range and the suppression from automatic fire, were also unable to land shots to their unprotected heads. It wasn’t until the second ‘officer down’ call that the LSPD’s Special Weapons and Tactics was notified by dispatchers and requested on scene.
Source: https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/878-los-santos-police-department/

Those two events quite obviously reference the North Hollywood shootout and Rampart Station scandal. I don't think it's unreasonable to acknowledge them as well, since those occurrences were really major and have inflicted serious changes with the approach to law enforcement.

There are also several illegal factions that reference real life events, however that's pretty much the standard among street gang factions, so I'll give up on quoting those. As it currently stands the issue is in the fact that some members of the community simply refuse to acknowledge said events along with several other major events from California. I believe that the solution to this issue is quite simple and putting up a lore thread, with lory-fied names and references to certain events (pre-2017 that is) would help. I think it's quite obvioust that the current continuity is very inconsistent, since it doesn't force (directly or indirectly) literally any approach except for the names of the cities outside of San Andreas/Cali. It is the current general consensus that San Andreas is to replace California.

The issues also arise when you look into the legal system (judiciary). Several major caselaws originate from California, however are not recognized and cannot be used in the courts. What is slightly more concerning is the fact that several LEO factions already do recognize the precendents set by those cases (be it Brendlin v. California, Pitchess v. Superior Court, Chimel v. California, Ashker v. Governor of California), however there's physically no way to hold them responsible for those OOCly recognized precedents. I could quite literally bet ten dollars that both the PD and SD manuals currently mention Brendlin v. California as mandatory knowledge, but since there's no way to invoke this case via IC means (usage of Californian cases in JSA is currently banned) there's no way to hold one responsible for a violation of this de facto recognized precedent. The solution is a way simpler than you would imagine, simply change the names of those cases to Brendlin v. San Andreas, etc. and allow people to use them. While I understand that not all Californian cases would apply I believe it wouldn't harm to have at least the essentials incorporated. 

What could the continuity team do to teach people how to roleplay California? Well, in my eyes the perfect solution would consist of putting up a non-staff subteam working along with the continuity admins and establishing certain boundaries (in illegal, law enforcement, legal and court/justice roleplay), providing quality guides explaning the Californian lifestyle more and focusing on putting up a solid (maybe even long) thread including all the major events from history of California, accordingly lory-fied to make sense on the server.

I'm really interested what are your guys thoughts on this topic, but as far as I've been discussing this with my friends we're all pretty much on the same note and agree that the server lore needs to be standardized and that the administration team should focus on enforcing the lore. Thanks for tuning into my rant.

Edited July 10, 2021 by i dont wanna od in LA

[Midwest]

legalize weed

[xdthe]

I agree. I think that continuity management needs to make an in-depth lore explanation and establish what happened in LS history prior to 2017.

[SugarDavis]

This server seems so dead set on the California aesthetic but unwilling to deal with the shitty parts of California like high taxes, restrictive laws/government regulation, and heavy gun control. If it were up to me (the all knowing and all powerful), I'd just adopt as much of California as we feasibly can and then anything we DON'T like can be deviated from using IC means like the legislature changing laws, court rulings, etc. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by SugarDavis

[waterwings]

This has been brought up to server administration and will be discussed. Why has this thread been made? What is the point?

Let's give an example though.

City of LA v. Superior court.

This mentions code of civil procedures. CA law which we do not have. Furthermore, it directly links to tons of previous precedents set.

Caselaw is not valid without the law which it's based on.

Which is why only SCOTUS law can be considered.

Unless administration replaces all our law with CA law

[i dont wanna od in LA]

Just now, SugarDavis said:

This server seems so dead set on the California aesthetic but unwilling to deal with the shitty parts of California like high taxes, restricted laws, and heavy gun control. If it were up to me (the all knowing and all powerful), I'd just adopt as much of California as we feasibly can and then anything we DON'T like can be deviated from using IC means like the legislature changing laws, court rulings, etc. 

That's pretty much my point, in fact. In the current state of the server, essential laws (and I really mean basic shit like acts regulating employment or access to public information a/k/a a state counterpart of FOIA) are simply not in place. State Senate should be used as an OOC tool until all important acts are present.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

Just now, BjornV said:

This has been brought up to server administration and will be discussed. Why has this thread been made? What is the point?

Let's give an example though.

City of LA v. Superior court.

This mentions code of civil procedures. CA law which we do not have. Furthermore, it directly links to tons of previous precedents set.

Caselaw is not valid without the law which it's based on.

Which is why only SCOTUS law can be considered.

Unless administration replaces all our law with CA law

That is exactly why I mentioned that somebody would actually have to sit down and review some of the more important caselaws and approve them for lory-fied usage. As previously mentioned, the very very very basic laws are missing from the server, so I assume that if certain laws were incorporated on an OOC basis, it would be easier to steer around the real life caselaws.

[LAGhost]

In terms of server continuity we should be roleplaying as closely to our California real life counterpart as much the game allows us to.

I've seen too many players that adopt a Hollywood mindset or take different states in America and try to adapt it, or try to bring non-North American mindsets to the setting and poorly portray as a result.

 

To be able to take inspiration from the real world and incorporate it into this setting is a dream come true. It allows me to be really creative and use my imagination in-par with the reality of California, whether it does or doesn't benefit me.

 

As for the inconsistencies and what can be done to establish the presence, I think the only suggestion I am informed on is that all factions should have the same number in terms of matching portrayal of real-life counterparts and if they want to go above that, then it should be at the discretion of the faction leader to do so, hence it is their faction to do so, but there should be a shared mindset among all. So 1-10, SD, PD all other LEAs such as SFM, SAPR, should be at 7, and if one wants to be at 8, or 9 on the scale, then they can. But it should be a streamlined mindset.

 

EDIT: I do support this thread and what it stands for. We definitely require more clarity and to stand on the same ground together.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Wynters

[Ted]

Very well read and well spoken. We should definately have case law that reflects California. 

[Helm]

The bigger offense are the ULSA college sports. Playing football in Spring will never stop being dumb, since the only reason it ever happened in the real world was because of COVID, and UCLA didn't take part in it...