IC Immigration & Crime

[shaobadman]

This is another one of those "why not do this for the sake of some realism, but I won't think about how it'll end up in practice" ideas. Nobody has to be in love with the stereotype RP in your third paragraph to disagree with this suggestion, the second paragraph is enough.

 

You'll be opening a can of worms by trying to aim for realism in immigration - the process of immigrating to the USA isn't easy, but the work or lifestyles that a lot of immigrant characters keep in GTAW would have you believe so. I'll agree it gets unrealistic at times, but I also think that it doesn't seem like something worth adjusting, because it's going to divide up players and strongly affect the kind of characters we get on the server (even if some aren't great).

 

If you want a deterrent that keeps characters right, a life sentence in prison would be much less restrictive - then they're out of the public eye and in a place to continue their RP as a result of all their actions, and the player is free to conclude/delete the character if they want.

 

And if I'm understanding your second paragraph correctly, you want admins to kill that character's story completely by substituting jail with a complete CK that's explained IC by a deportation, I don't know how strongly you feel about this idea but it does not sound very good.

 

 

55 minutes ago, Clout said:

Gotta disagree, I don't think NGRP is something you'd use as an example for standards at all, it's nothing more than a medium RP server where people mostly cared about doing /material/ runs so they can craft shotguns, buy donator so they can access lockers inside some sorta hub club and buy guns and armor from inside with /donator tokens/...I'm still talking about an RP server btw, no, it's not Dayz or some sorta open world csgo 

I totally agree with @Gryphboi here, give people a reason to behave.

 

The best part of this comment is that one mention of a server's name brought you to completely dismiss a point regarding the handling of immigration/deportation, found in a comment that's far more on topic than the unnecessary rant in yours.

[DLimit]

On my illegal migrant characters, I treated every traffic stop as a possibility of being deported. Once they were caught? They were CK'd via deportation.

It's supreme hardcore mode, and it's heavily enjoyable when RP'd properly. More challenging than Homeless R.P. due to having A) A language barrier, B) Lesser pay, and C) CK'd upon a simple police stop.

Edited July 9, 2021 by DLimit

[Aquila]

25 minutes ago, Late said:

I try not to talk too much about Habeeb's immigration status. As someone who immigrated to the US IRL and went though the system, obtaining a green card and so on there were a lot of restrictions on me from day one. I couldn't get a Californian license until my green card, there was doubt if the DMV would accept an alien number as enough proof etc etc etc.. There's no point even talking about it ICly, very few people will have the OOC knowledge about it that's why it's not discussed.

 

With that said for the few people that do question Habeeb I loosely say he came through a refugee program and obtained citizenship and is now a dual national after having been a permanent resident for so long. Anyway, being a dual national gives you more protection from being deported or stripped of your citizenship but Habeeb's most serious crime is a speeding offense so my RP of being a fresh of the boat immigrant will be a lot different to illegal characters. 

 

So you abandoned our lovely Wales for the America...

 

With regards to the first paragraph, you're absolutely correct - few people have OOC knowledge of the immigration process because, according to this survey I held in 2018, most of the server (at the time) were either from Western or Northern Europe. This is only inclusive of people who took the time to take part in my survey, so obviously it isn't completely accurate.

 

The Americans who play here are most likely not immigrants themselves, so while they have citizenship, they don't fully understand the process either. I hadn't considered my character's immigration status until I read your post, so that's something I'll need to sort out in the backstory. Thanks.

 

2 minutes ago, shaobadman said:

This is another one of those "why not do this for the sake of some realism, but I won't think about how it'll end up in practice" ideas. Nobody has to be in love with the stereotype RP in your third paragraph to disagree with this suggestion, the second paragraph is enough.

 

You'll be opening a can of worms by trying to aim for realism in immigration - the process of immigrating to the USA isn't easy, but the work or lifestyles that a lot of immigrant characters keep in GTAW would have you believe so. I'll agree it gets unrealistic at times, but I also think that it doesn't seem like something worth adjusting, because it's going to divide up players and strongly affect the kind of characters we get on the server (even if some aren't great).

 

If you want a deterrent that keeps characters right, a life sentence in prison would be much less restrictive - then they're out of the public eye and in a place to continue their RP as a result of all their actions, and the player is free to conclude/delete the character if they want.

 

And if I'm understanding your second paragraph correctly, you want admins to kill that character's story completely by substituting jail with a complete CK that's explained IC by a deportation, I don't know how strongly you feel about this idea but it does not sound very good.

 

 

 

The best part of this comment is that one mention of a server's name brought you to completely dismiss a point regarding the handling of immigration/deportation, found in a comment that's far more on topic than the unnecessary rant in yours.

 

lmao @ the second part

 

Without a doubt it is unfair to dismiss a point purely because one reads 3-4 letters and replies passive-aggressively.

 

With regards to the remainder of your post, I agree with you. We have to keep things in the server somewhat unrealistic so that we can play here - like someone else said, it's too easy to buy a car or a house on this server (relatively speaking, not taking into account the current housing crisis) because it has to be in order for us to have a bit of fun. While that may not be directly related to the matter at hand, it sets the scene of why we can't go for 1:1 realism - we want to be able to portray characters without having to replicate the exact same hardships young adults face with financial difficulties, mortgages, loans, etc.

 

Third point is good. I understand that America has detention centres and rapidly deports immigrants, while in the UK they can be held at local prisons or detention centres for extended periods of time. It hurts no-one OOC to hold an illegal immigrant in a prison or jail for long periods, because that still allows people to roleplay their character without having to throw all their work in the trash. I understand that it may not be realistic for an American setting, but the rampant crime, strange civilians, and semi-deserted areas of the city are also not realistic, but we make do. We often have to make adjustments in order for things to work.

 

[Clout]

1 hour ago, Aquila said:

 

Seems like a weird form of deflection by focusing on irrelevant parts of a former server. No point entertaining this attempt.

its not an attempt its my opinion on how significantly low on standards ngrp is , too bad to be brought into this suggestion. 

n if i was to address your point, you're saying it only contributes to a handful of people's stories, not sure what that means, it's gonna affect whoever's IC'ly dumb enough to do the same shit over n over and get caught for it, no matter what their story is. now from what i can understand, you just wanna play it safe without a risk of a CK? also u said waste of time but carried on to contradict yourself in the same comment

[Florida]

I agree, illegal immigrants who are habitual criminal offenders would be deported (CK'd). 

[Koko]

I invite more people to consider their immigration status in RP. It doesn't have to be very deep, but just something to remember. On my Jamaican character his legal status and visa in the country was a recurring topic:

 

He arrived on a student visa, which meant that he needed to quickly find a job after graduating from ULSA. At some point even the possibility of marriage was briefly discussed with his partner. It all justified many of his decisions because it was a thing always in the back of his mind.

[RSanders]

ICly deport, OOCly CK, foreign characters that have committed felonies or violent misdemeanours.

 

Unless, of course, they RP having US citizenship. You’re more than likely going to lose your green card, or work visa, if you commit anything more and including a misdemeanour. Restricting it to violent misdemeanours ‘and above’ is enough leeway as it is.

 

Also puts incentive to stop these unrealistic and, quite frankly, RPQM report level of characters and scenarios.

[jcat]

19 hours ago, Aquila said:

being an "undocumented alien" and just commit crime after crime and get away with it

 

Just like real life, tbh.

[hillievonb]

I don't know about the CK, because it's not impossible for people who were deported to return to the US. It happens.

[Jonesy]

Unfortunately it's one of those things that will seperate the mediocre / casual roleplayers and those who want to take it to the next level. Trying to enforce this would be nearly impossible as you'll have people simply RP folks who instead just got their citizenship because they do not want to roleplay the reprocussions of their character. For the most part most first generation immigrant characters on this server are not well researched and I'd be willing to guess the immigration demographics of Los Santos would look like 1950's New England rather than 2021 California. Unless the powers that be want to develop some sort of immigration status system I'd say it'd be tough to police who is an illegal immigrant, permanent resident, etc based on the honor system. 

 

If you know someone who is roleplaying a non-citizen and gets arrested every 2nd day, then feel free to let Roleplay Quality Management know and they can look into it. While it's a short term solution and it's not a perfect fix for this issue going forward, it's definitely an option for the time being and could take out some of the more egregious offenders.