Character Design & Hiding behind Offensive Roleplay Rules

[SCANDALOUZ]

3 minutes ago, Engelbert said:

Bruh....a prostitute roleplay and rape are two different things. In case you don't understand...you need help.

You continue to misunderstand.

Please go back and read the OP, or just don't bother at all. I never claimed they aren't two entirely different things. But read it entirely, don't just take a one liner out of context.

Edited June 30, 2021 by SCANDALOUZ

[hillievonb]

Just now, SCANDALOUZ said:

You continue to misunderstand.

Please go back and read the OP, or just don't bother at all. I never claimed they aren't two entirely different things. But read it entirely, don't just take a one liner out of context.

If you're arguing that Bob the mobster #51 can graphically torture someone, but withdraw consent when it happens to them, okay, I can kind of see the argument. But in when it comes to "prostitutes should consent to rape", you absolutely can't argue that they can dish it out but can't take it, these are two completely different things.

The argument that involvement in one thing should imply consent to the other is utterly gross and mirrors the reason actual RL sex workers have their rape compliants discarded and ignored. That's the problem.

[SCANDALOUZ]

18 minutes ago, hillievonb said:

If you're arguing that Bob the mobster #51 can graphically torture someone, but withdraw consent when it happens to them, okay, I can kind of see the argument. But in when it comes to "prostitutes should consent to rape", you absolutely can't argue that they can dish it out but can't take it, these are two completely different things.

The argument that involvement in one thing should imply consent to the other is utterly gross and mirrors the reason actual RL sex workers have their rape compliants discarded and ignored. That's the problem.

 

That's exactly my argument.

 

"My character killed a child, but I don't want to engage in role play during which he loses an arm AND I also don't want to agree to FTB that results in my character being armless, because that makes me uncomfortable." 

 

^ This shouldn't happen. And at the very least agreeing to FTB should be in rules, when its not.

 

As for the prostitution point, rape rp is banned for a good reason, so I'm not argueing about it, but more-so I was trying to draw a comparison that pertains to actions-consequences dynamics. Making a wrong move in a harsh, underground and cruel criminal world is realistically probable to get you hurt, just like its realistically probable for prostitutes to be sexual victims. Paid sex and being raped are not the same. But realistically a lot of paid sex workers are victims of rape.

 

 

Also I don't think all characters should be 'forced' to have to cope with role playing maimed for example if it gets to it and if it makes them uncomfortable. But those that chose a dangerous life walk IC, shouldn't be able to avoid the consequences thanks to OOC.

 

Again, nobody is saying you must sit down thru a 3hr torture session, but consent the consequences if you decided to fuck with the mob per se.

 

 

Or... Essentially, if you chose a certain life path, you should be prepared /and/ willing to face the consequences that often come with it.

 

Or... You can't fuck with the mob, but then say no to torture. You want to get into a situation but only get the good and absolutely void the bad. Thats objectively badrp.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by SCANDALOUZ

[Fancy Toothpaste]

33 minutes ago, SCANDALOUZ said:

 

1) The girlfriend anal analogy is a good one, and you're right. But that analogy implies choice and electing for hypocrisy in-character. You don't get a choice on wether or not the mob cuts off your arm irl/ic, and you shouldn't ooc when it pertains to IC.

The proposition of this point would imply that torture and mutilation is expected even in extreme criminal circumstances. Sure, turture is used excessively in moveis so we simply assume that IRL criminals must do it all the time... When in the US that's just hyperbole. 

Most criminal roleplayers - from the moment they create their character - consent to the possibility of their character being murdered or imprisoned due to their criminal behaviors. These players accept that the roleplay may not turn out in their favor and they may ineed "lose".

Being tortured isn't just about "losing" it's about removing the player's agency and subjecting them to possibly uncomfortable and distasteful circumstances that could otherwise be avoided through simply murdering them instead. When I play a criminal, I accept that I may be killed for my criminal involvement. That doesn't mean that all holds are barred simply because I wish to engage in a certain avanue of roleplay. A "good" roleplay may roll with the punches and take whatever comes to them on the chin, but ultimately that's left to the discretion of the player themselves.

Plenty of distasteful shit happens IRL that could be portrayed on the server: Cannibalism, necrophelia, and rape all happen IRL too but you're not advacating for those. We don't force players to roleplay STD's or cancer simply because it happens IRL? Why torture specifically? To me, it seems like you've got an axe to grind.

TL:DR - Management have chosen - in this instance - to favor the agency and comfort of their players over your ability to impose "offensive roleplay" upon them. I agree with their decision and don't see why someone's choice of character should factor into one's personal comfort.

If you want to accuse someone of being a hypocrit and a shitty roleplayer, that's your right. It's not your right to impose offensive roleplay onto others.

33 minutes ago, SCANDALOUZ said:

2) I literally have no idea what report you're talking about. Unlike half the server I don't stalk the report section. I have a silly active report on me for DM or whatever not real thing, and there's absolutely no torture or whatever involved.

Assuming "Interrogation" isn't a euphomism for a slumber party, I'm finding it somewhat hard to believe that this isn't the axe you're grinding.

Doesn't really matter to me though, whether this discussion stems from something that happened In-game or a random thought you had in the shower, you're still on the wrong side of it.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Fancy Toothpaste
It's 6:30 AM and I'm going to sleep, so if you reply I won't see it. Not sure if I'll respond to it anyways, I've said my piece.

[SCANDALOUZ]

13 minutes ago, Fancy Toothpaste said:

 

If you want to accuse someone of being a hypocrit and a shitty roleplayer, that's your right. It's not your right to impose offensive roleplay onto others.

Assuming "Interrogation" isn't a euphomism for a slumber party, I'm finding it somewhat hard to believe that this isn't the axe you're grinding.

Doesn't really matter to me though, whether this discussion stems from something that happened In-game or a random thought you had in the shower, you're still on the wrong side of it.

 

I can agree to the first and generally agree to disagree on the whole subject.

 

As for the report, I assure you that there was no torture or offensive rp involved whatsoever. The victim was just asked questions while at gunpoint. There was never any contact or whatever. No idea why I put interrogation in "", but yeah, call it a shower inspiration.

 

 

Also argue about it but not other things? Torture/gore is a legitimate role playing niche. Rape and shit isn't (even tho its factual that many sex workers irl are victims of rape).

 

You mentioned movies, there's a whole genre of gore movies, there isn't exactly one of rape ones. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by SCANDALOUZ

[Daquan Kingston]

I can see your point. However as a person that has seen quite disturbing things IRL when it comes to violence (especially stabbing) it makes me very uncomfortable in general when people roleplay it with such ease. Watching somebody’s body get cut open and blood pouring out of them is not something that is normal to be accustomed to, no matter how many movies you watch. However, you make a valid point and I would like to see a general stance on violence to cut it down or make it free for all at this point. I preferably would appreciate if people do their violent acts in more private settings. I am tired of constantly having to think/read of people’s bodies being cut open or shot like bags.

[Yoak]

any1 got a tldr

[lux]

I think the recent rape and pedophilia rule adjustments are good. I know people have their fetishes and 'rape' fantasies, but there just isn't a place for it here, imo. It's too sensitive a subject and there are survivors here - player comfort should be priority over anything else.

 

What people don't understand with "rape RP" is there is a huge knock-on effect. It's not just the victim, it's the people associated with them, the cops investigating, the judges preciding over the cases - just because the victim may have given an "okay", that shouldn't then be forced onto other people to deal with. I don't want to personally deal with rape story-lines IC, whether it's my character or friends - I'm not comfortable with it and I prefer this new rule as I no longer have to worry about, "rape perms?" in /b, which in itself is such a fucking weird concept to me and could be taken as an insult to a rape survivor IRL.

 

Prime example, my character had her skirt lifted by a person without asking my consent in /b. I rolled with it, as I wouldn't consider that going too far and it ended up with the person being convicted of sexual battery/assault - but no court case happened as the person, "didn't want to be humiliated or have their reputation ruined" - I was perfectly okay with this and it just automatically went down as guilty. I didn't have an issue with the roleplay that happened - but I know others who would not have felt comfortable and would have reported the person instead for breaking the rules.

 

 

Onto mutilation,

I actually come from a SA:MP server where you could apply for Mutliation perms very similar to CK apps. Mutliation permitted a player, if the application was accepted, to perform a multiation/torture on an enemy. This could be finger removal, scarification, forced tattoos, knee-capping etc. These were allowed to be F2B'd if the person on the receiving end was not comfortable. Many people did not RP the extent of their mutiliation but rather just had a quick one-liner in their /examine. 

 

The major difference between the mutliation and CK app was that the person must survive their mutliation - so therefore it could not be something that could cause death. You wouldn't see people removing arms or legs, it was more minor things - like a scar on the face or a tattooed 'Traitor' on their chest etc. It had to be handled appropriately and a mutilation request was only ever used for a serious, serious insult in-game that couldn't warrant a CK. But the way people escalate on GTA:W, I don't think it would work.

 

Forcing someone to roleplay a forced injury is always going to be difficult. An injury means that someone can no longer do normal things and can be seen as a limiting a character and the persons enjoyment. Some people will roll with it (One of my characters has a vision problem where they are slowly losing their sight due to an accident that happened on the server around 2 years ago) but that should always be the players decision.

 

 

For me personally, I think if you involve yourself in some mafia level organized crime - this is something that comes with it and should be a concern of happening and you should be more open minded/accepting if this does happen to you. I do think people hide behind certain rules to ignore things that could happen to their character and I would argue that being injured/crippled/assaulted/tortured by a rival can bring you some real sweet RP out of it. But not everyone thinks that way.

 

 

So, I definitely think the current rape/age rules should remain but a larger general acceptance (especially around mob/mafia type RPers) for injury should be taken into account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SCANDALOUZ]

6 minutes ago, lux said:

 

So, I definitely think the current rape/age rules should remain but a larger general acceptance (especially around mob/mafia type RPers) for injury should be taken into account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, this, thank you.

[Engelbert]

I don't think I misunderstood anything. I only said you chose not really good comparison. Yes in realistic settings it should work, but is this a realistic setting? When teens pull guns at cops, for simply being cops and god forbid they dare to stop a couple of teens to ask them questions.

Same guys then complain why they were shot, they were only teens. I see what you wanted to say and yes, people should accept consequences, but the comparison with the rape happens very often, especially in big countries and it is only natural people feel disgusted if someone even asks them about it. In my line for work, I seen many things and trust me, nothing beats the cringe of a crying prostitute and cops not believing her, nothing. Not even a murder.