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The Property/Housing Epidemic, and potential solutions


Y3

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I should preface immediately that I am in no way a professional in this area. I'm not staff, I don't know the innerworkings of Property Management, and even my tag as 'mapping team' shouldn't give me credit in the overall grand scheme of this thread. I merely offer this as insight into a long-time player and observer's conclusions on why this might be the atmosphere of property at the moment. My knowledge here is entirely derived from what I've gathered via second hand information from property management over months, and from personal observation and high activity within the property market of GTA:W.

 

This thread should be the foundations for a discussion to be built upon regarding property and it's atmosphere, and in no way should be a critique of property management or it's innerworkings.

 


 

I recall a time about a year ago exactly, where Mirror Park houses, Vespucci Canal houses, and other non-complex properties were posted in the Properties section of the forums for sale, although infrequently. They were always quick to sell, but sometimes, these properties would sit. Maybe they were too expensive, maybe the mapping wasn't right, maybe something about the area was wrong.

 

But today, a property that even is considered 'stand-alone', is bought for buy-out within 10 minutes of the posting, regardless of any aspect of it. Often these properties aren't even given a chance for sale. Instead, they're put up as [4TRADE].

 

Why is this the case? What happened?

 

As a preface, here is some commonly used lingo. NOTE: These are not all official terms.

  • Dim 0 - The set dimension in which embodies the exterior world of GTA:W. When entering a property, you are transported into a different dimension, ranging in numbers. In other words, Dim 0 exclusively refers to 'outside'.
  • Stand-alone property/Non-complex property - This refers to a property in which is entered through a door in Dim 0 that is dedicated exclusively to that one property. Ex: A stand-alone apartment, meaning it is an apartment that is accessed through an exclusive exterior door found in Dim 0, and not through an access menu. An example of a stand-alone property's address would be: 2249 Bay Avenue. NOTE: Although stand-alone properties can refer to both houses and apartments, they are rarely applied to house properties, given referring to a house property as a 'stand-alone property' is a null point.
  • Complex Menu Property - This refers to a property in which is accessed through a complex menu. Ex: when you approach the door to a large apartment complex, you access a menu of floors, and through that menu of floors, you find your room and subsequently access your property. An example of a complex property's address would be: Elgin House Floor 14 Room 1
  • Interior Complex Property - This refers to a somewhat new concept, given it was implemented within the last 8 months. These are a hybrid of complex menu, and stand-alone properties. They are complex menu properties in which the mapping team has created an interior for. So instead of navigating a menu to access your property within a complex, instead, you will actually enter a physical lobby, where you will find an individualized door set for your property. An example address of this type of property would be: Vitus Street Complex Apartment 21

 

Common Theoretical Causes:

  1. [LIKELY] Obviously, the population has nearly doubled since June of 2020. The demand for property is at an all time high. Clearly this is a cause for the shift in property's atmosphere, but I thoroughly believe it is not entirely the reason.
  2. [UNLIKELY] Inflation has occurred with more money being generated, given more players exist to persist the creation of income. I don't believe this is the case, although it is most certainly true in some aspects, just not regarding housing.
  3. [VERY LIKELY] Property has not become more rare, but instead, it's perceived value has increased beyond money itself.
  4. [VERY LIKELY] In succession to point 3, the only way to get 'stand-alone properties' nowadays is through map.gta.world, to which is very easily botted, and therefore all properties of any value are taken within minutes of posting.
  5. [VERY LIKELY] All properties of any sort of value or rarity are being traded through ooc-dealings, due to points 3 and 4.

 

Yes, there is a higher demand for these properties given more players now exist, and a larger group of veteran players are more interested in purchasing said properties. However, I believe we're witnessing an involuntarily self-influenced artificial inflation of these properties, where the maximum buyout price is simply not enough to justify selling the property for any sort of cash value, exclusively because these properties are such high priority to anyone seeking property assets.

 

It's not even that these are worth so much. It's just a combination of people wanting stand-alone properties so badly, and simultaneously, people hoarding them endlessly, despite having no use for them.

 

Common solutions, and why they won't work:

  1. Raising the price of these properties will solve nothing. Sure, maybe a few players will be more inclined to sell them, but what matters to these players is not the money, but the fact they own these assets, and that nobody else can have them until they're ready to pass it off to someone else they feel worthy.
  2. Creating more complex menu properties, or interior complex properties will only perpetuate the problem, and create a MASSIVE divide between an excess of these complex properties that nobody seems to want, and an extreme lack of stand-alone properties that everyone seems to lust for.
  3. Banning the use of [4TRADE], or trading of properties as a whole will only lead to people resorting to rule-breaking in order to get a 'fair deal' for their properties. This would make the problem much, much worse, and create significant backlash.
  4. Opening more stand-alone properties that previously were held exclusively for request-only will work as a temporary solution as people will be more inclined to sell their properties in order to buy these new ones, however, I believe this will only work for a short period, and overall seems very inconvenient for both property management, and staff as a whole. Again, the issue is NOT a lack of these properties, but instead, overwhelming demand and hoarding.

 

So of course, I'm pretty quick to list of common causes and solutions only to immediately diffuse them. What do I think would be a more permanent solution?

 

Permanent solutions:

  1. The complete removal of Map.gta.world. -- Now, I'm almost positive this concept will almost instantly lead to backlash as it seems like a removal of player freedom and open market, however, it plays greatly into point 2. In regards to this point however, Map.gta.world is extremely unrealistic, and to me, seems to overwhelmingly bait the idea of hoarding properties in an unrealistic manner. Properties do not foreclose and simply go on a map where people run up to it and spam a buy command, obviously. Instead, they're foreclosed, and placed up for sale through foreclosure bureaus either private or owned by the city/state. Yes they're cheap, but nowhere near as cheap as what is found on Map.gta.world. It is for this same reason that we often find 18 year old lesbian 24/7 workers with two-story mirror park houses. They got it for extremely cheap, they do not have the portrayal correct to own it, they only acquired it because they caught it in time on Map.gta.world, And as a result, they will never sell it, because why would they? It's rare, and it's theirs. This leads to point 2.
  2. Regulate the sale of inactive properties through the UCP via application. 'Foreclosure Applications' -- When I say this, I do not mean it like house-requests. Instead, think of a system identical to the lease request menu. Any time a property goes inactive or gets removed from a player via staff, it goes onto the UCP's Foreclosure Application section, where players can view it from a drop down list with preview photos. They can then provide a short application, proof of portrayal on how/why they would own it, and admins can validate this through the same system. Once this player is approved to buy the house, it is then transferred to their hands completely. It is not a lease, they do not have to make payments on it, it is their house. When they decide to sell it, they can sell it on the OPEN MARKET in the property section of the forums, where any player can buy it, thus returning it back into the open-market system of GTA:W's properties.

 

What do these solutions solve?:

  • Regulation of high-demand housing, while retaining open-market freedom expressed among players.
  • High demand housing will now go to players who deserve it, and bare proper portrayal to represent said assets.
  • ONLY INACTIVE PROPERTIES or properties removed via staff jurisdiction will appear on this list. With coding, this entire process will be automated, and will only need one handling property-management admin to handle applications.
  • Once properties are finished by the owner, they can then be sold on the open market, just as they always have been.
  • This will reduce the demand, as players who deserve said properties will now more easily get their hands on it, and players who desire it more yet don't wish to apply will now have a greater chance of purchasing, given that properties will now more available on the property section as a result.

 

Although I fear this might be considered extra work by PM, I also feel that as a whole, it will greatly reduce the weight behind PM's workload. Examples:

  • Seizure of properties due to poor portrayal will now be less common.
  • Concern for botting and misuse of map.gta.world will be rendered null.
  • PM can now control who receives properties based on proper portrayal, and therefore less concern in regards to the longevity of that properties activities and use.
  • Less questions and private messages asked in regards to property availability, openings, etc.
  • More properties becoming available in the properties section of the forums means more players can access and obtain as demand reduces due to regulation of foreclosures.

 

I hope this thread can act as a spur of discussion between PM, staff, and the playerbase regarding this debated topic, and I hope my solutions can provide a sense of reason when forming potential conclusions about this ongoing epidemic. Thank you for reading!

 

TL;DR:

Remove Map.gta.world, regulate inactive properties through a new section of the ucp called 'Foreclosure Applications'. People can create a short application for said properties, PM can verify portrayal concerns, and they can be issued property accordingly. Once they own the property, they can sell it on the open market as they always have. This will solve demand issues, portrayal issues regarding improper ownership, and overall bolster the open market of properties for everyone, including those who don't wish to apply.

 

 

I apologize for any sort of confusion in my manner of typing atm. I'm recovering from a surgery and I'm on a shit ton of pain medication.

 

Edited by Y3
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My real problem is there's not enough scrutiny as to who owns what. Anyone can own anything anywhere, there are no pre-requisites to owning these things, there's no downsides to owning these things. People don't have to pay bills, maintain a home, or anything for that matter.

That's part of the issue, that perpetuates the unbelievably stupid hoarding culture.

 

Also, limit owned properties to 1 residential, 1 business unless applied for.

Edited by slick!
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I support this. It is ridiculous that cops, and people who irl would never be able to afford these properties live in them. I just saw a cop hop out of a cruiser and head up to his tinsel tower apartment. An apartment that should cost a million at least irl. Meanwhile there are successful business owners who can't move out of Mission row starter apartments due to lack of availability.

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I’ve said it from the beginning, the market price limit does more harm then good.

 

remove map.gta.world and make an auction based format for houses (not an application, PM scrutinise too much) that go inactive. We don’t need more houses to be locked behind requests…

 

players don’t keep houses because they’re “hoarding” it’s because when they advertise their house there is 20 people willing to buy it at the max price. Subsequently this means it’s underpriced, so the desire to sell it for an undervalued price is gone.


Also, nobody sells their house because they’re artificially undervalued so if you do decide to genuinely sell it then you have nothing to buy onwards aside from a mediocre apartment - there is no sense of reason to sell if what you are moving to is a downgrade. At least if it was even a side-step to a like for like house there is a sliver of incentive.

 

house requests need to go too with the exception of crazy big houses in the hills, and a handful of properties in each “town” that roleplayers who provide good roleplay but have little money can request.

Edited by Melnik
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