My appeal to LEO Rpers.

[Fancy Toothpaste]

1 minute ago, DLimit said:

They could've RP'd in prison, though... for I.C. development? My greatest experiences were in prison.

Female pod, there wasn't anyone around at the time.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Fancy Toothpaste

[MickeyO]

29 minutes ago, Brown Buffalo said:

However, a significant problem you will encounter @MickeyO is that most cops don't know case law. Most Internal Affairs cases are handled incorrectly due to favoritism. So I think your challenging of them to the understanding of the law is completely valid.

Regardless of the situation I'm expecting reform from the situation and for both LEO factions to establish proper rules on what they can stop and frisk and what they can't. This isn't an illegal vs. PD post.

[Tseard]

8 minutes ago, Fancy Toothpaste said:

I had a friend spend a month in jail because a police officer arrested them with little to no evidence. They plead not guilty and in the end, the arrest was thrown out of court. That's all IC.

The OOC consequences was that they couldn't play their character for a month, and they lost all motivation to play on the server. I can't say I blame them, but I reiterate what I said: IC decisions also have OOC consenquences.

Cops making mistakes is one thing, but many LEO players forget that they weild more power then your average player, and can completely destory the motivation of illegal RPers on the server. Police and Criminals are not against eachother, they're symbiotic. They cannot have a meaningful RP experience without the other, and therefore respect is paramount.

I'm not here to throw blame around. I can tell you personally that 95% of my interactions with police have been extremely positive. I'm just explaining that illegal RPers have very justified frustrations when it comes to one-sided police interactions. 

 

If he plead not guilty, then the checks and balances that come with such plea failed, can either be the fault of the arresting officer not posting the notification or the DA not picking up the case. Unfortunately, with the system that we have, this can happen and that is not the fault of the LSPD but it's the way the legal system works on this server. 

 

People can be arrested and evidence will be provided. It's then up to the DA to continue to press charges or to throw it out if there is no evidence. Alternately, the arrested person could also hire a lawyer and challenge it legally. 

 

That's the system that we have and that's not a fault of a police faction. Sometimes you arrest someone thinking you have enough evidence. 

 

https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/32434-court-mega-information-thread/?do=findComment&comment=280397 says: ''You have the right to a speedy trial. And not just an IC right, but an OOC right. If your paperwork is taking longer then three days to be processed to even be brought into court for any reason, you have the right to bring these problems up to the Judiciary in order to get it resolved.''

 

There was previously also a rule that cases can't last longer than 12 days, but I am unable to find that specifically now. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Tseard

[Koko]

In all fairness, if you have a record for prior violent felonies especially ones related to illegal firearms, I think you can very reasonably argue for a frisk if you're conducting a traffic stop. You don't need a warrant for a frisk. Now you can really take this IC and campaign against it. I did it on my own character before he was murdered (even when he was one of the few almost fully legal South Central residents and would've OOC benefitted from more stops).

 

Spoiler

 

Again, like that post says, 88% of stop searches in NY end with no fines of convictions, which means that almost 9 out of 10 times someone is Terry Frisked IRL they don't find anything on them. It doesn't mean the searches are unlawful though.

 

If you're an ilegally armed convicted felon, I just think that if you're in a vehicle you should take some more precautions against the police, like for example not carrying the gun on your person. RP keeping it in the glovebox or somewhere else, since being a violent offender is going to get you searched more often, whether you consider it fair or unfair.

 

[nelsondx]

11 minutes ago, Fancy Toothpaste said:

I had a friend spend a month in jail because a police officer arrested them with little to no evidence. They plead not guilty and in the end, the arrest was thrown out of court. That's all IC.

The OOC consequences was that they couldn't play their character for a month, and they lost all motivation to play on the server. I can't say I blame them, but I reiterate what I said: IC decisions also have OOC consenquences.

Cops making mistakes is one thing, but many LEO players forget that they weild more power then your average player, and can completely destory the motivation of illegal RPers on the server. Police and Criminals are not against eachother, they're symbiotic. They cannot have a meaningful RP experience without the other, and therefore respect is paramount.

I'm not here to throw blame around. I can tell you personally that 95% of my interactions with police have been extremely positive. I'm just explaining that illegal RPers have very justified frustrations when it comes to one-sided police interactions. 

I believe you, but you have to understand it's not exactly PD's fault. Sure it is to an extent because if that is true, the officer should know when he has enough reasons and evidence to arrest someone, but as you said, it's an IC thing. If it took 1 month as you said to solve the issue, it's honestly not PD's fault, moreso the justice faction for being understaffed if anything.

Police Officers do this IRL, what your friend went through is actually something that happens IRL daily, you would actually be surprised with how much Police Officers can get away with by saying "I feared for my safety", that's how American law is designed. However, I do agree waiting 1 month and not being able to say is a bit much indeed.

 

Also, allow me to give you a fair shake of the dice, a lot of stuff criminals do destroy motivation for the LEO RPers as a whole, I won't say what because I do not wish to turn this into a LEO VS CRIMINAL thread, LEO RPers also have frustrations with criminal RPers, I can't honestly say I've had an experience that made me quit because I can take an L if it's fair and square, but waht you are saying, as much as I sympathize with you, it's not Pd's fault as a whole. You also have to understand we are RPing an American law enforcement agency, the US Supreme Court allowed certain "rules" to Police agencies IRL throughout the years. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by nelsondx

[MickeyO]

Just now, Koko said:

In all fairness, if you have a reMy oord for prior violent felonies especially ones related to illegal firearms, I think you can very reasonably argue for a frisk if you're conducting a traffic stop. You don't need a warrant for a frisk. Now you can really take this IC and campaign against it. I did it on my own character before he was murdered (even when he was one of the few almost fully legal South Central residents and would've OOC benefitted from more stops).

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Again, like that post says, 88% of stop searches in NY end with no fines of convictions, which means that almost 9 out of 10 times someone is Terry Frisked IRL they don't find anything on them. It doesn't mean the searches are unlawful though.

 

If you're an ilegally armed convicted felon, I just think that if you're in a vehicle you should take some more precautions against the police, like for example not carrying the gun on your person. RP keeping it in the glovebox or somewhere else, since being a violent offender is going to get you searched more often, whether you consider it fair or unfair.

 

My only question is, what is gained from stopping someone and frisking them for a traffic offense REGARDLESS of record. It's play to win, obviously some have disagreeing in opinions but that's just how I see it.

[Engelbert]

Question: Is the character known gang member or do they have a criminal record of violence and armed assault or robbery?

If so, there is your reasonable suspicion. Once your name is on gang or violent crimes database, don't expect standard handling. Besides what others below me said. GTA World isn't anywhere similar to real world. Cops are shot at daily over traffic stops on the server, so they are safe to assume everyone they pull over is armed and/or on the run or mentally sick or gang member who just robbed someone. Sorry, but this is yet another consequence of insanely high crime rate on the server.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Engelbert

[Mick]

1 minute ago, MickeyO said:

My only question is, what is gained from stopping someone and frisking them for a traffic offense REGARDLESS of record. It's play to win, obviously some have disagreeing in opinions but that's just how I see it.

 They’re not frisking you for a traffic violation. They’re patting you down because your character is a convicted murderer whose known to carry guns. That with other things that were stated are perfectly valid reasons to perform a pat down for their safety whilst they carry out the stop. The benefit being they don’t get blasted. 

[Koko]

Just now, MickeyO said:

My only question is, what is gained from stopping someone and frisking them for a traffic offense REGARDLESS of record. It's play to win, obviously some have disagreeing in opinions but that's just how I see it.

Surviving a traffic stop as an officer is one, for example. LEOs get attacked in traffic stops regularly. You might've been willing to comply and leave to preserve your gun, but the amount of people who decide that a traffic stop is the time to gun down two cops isn't exactly zero.

[nelsondx]

 

9 minutes ago, MickeyO said:

My only question is, what is gained from stopping someone and frisking them for a traffic offense REGARDLESS of record. It's play to win, obviously some have disagreeing in opinions but that's just how I see it.

I mean, if your character is a violent murdered with a criminal record, don't you think it's reasonable for the officers to frisk your character for their safety? That's how it is IRL, I'm sure if you was a police officer and you had a violent person next to you, you'd take extra caution while dealing with them. Quoting what Mick said, " The benefit being they don’t get blasted. ". How is that play to win mentality? With all due respect, if an officer fears for their safety, how is that play to win? Because I am struggling to understand your statement.

If your character took this to courts, or IA, they'd immediately rule it was lawful based on the circumstances present.I'll reiterate again, Officer safety weights a lot in statements, even IRL.

Edited June 21, 2021 by nelsondx