Add Weekly Offline Property Tax

[maramizo]

1 minute ago, Stanty said:

(1) Taxing an owner will not solve any of the issues. A player who can afford to buy such property can also afford to pay the fee.

(2) If anything you are destroying hopes and dreams of players who were planning to rent a house because rent price will skyrocket.

1. This is an assumption. Presume it's true, it would still be a negative investment choice. Indubitably, they would hold the property for less time because of the upkeep fee.
2. It would be harder to rent, but easier to buy, due to the shift in supply, based on the reduced demand.

[HeyMambo]

39 minutes ago, Stanty said:

If a player isn't active enough and they own a property which has a high demand, it can be solved by property management case by case. In some situations, property management may ask a player to improve their activity or sell the property.

How naive of you. Obviously it’s an issue where Property Management can’t handle the volume of properties now. It’s not a reflection on them or their effort, but it’s a simple case of too much volume and not enough staff. We wouldn’t have any issues if this wasn’t the case. We can’t report people if we don’t know they are breaking rules. Do you just assume that everyone who owns a house is hoarding and report then just in case? That’ll increase PM’s workload even more. Expecting PM on their own to be the magic solution isn’t the solution. That’s just silly. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Numelo

[Stanty]

Just now, maramizo said:

1. This is an assumption. Presume it's true, it would still be a negative investment choice. Indubitably, they would hold the property for less time because of the upkeep fee.
2. It would be harder to rent, but easier to buy, due to the shift in supply, based on the reduced demand.

 

It's not going to be easier to buy and here is why.

 

A few people who don't want to lose money will sell their houses instantly. Players who don't care about tax will buy them and you will end up in the same position. Only a few players will sell their houses because of that and the buyers won't ever let go of the property, same as it is right now.

 

You are just ruining renting chances of a players who wish to RP in a house but can't afford or can't find one for sale.

[Stanty]

1 minute ago, Numelo said:

How naive of you. Obviously it’s an issue where Property Management can’t handle the volume of properties now. It’s not a reflection on them or their effort, but it’s a simple case of too much volume and not enough staff. We wouldn’t have any issues if this wasn’t the case. We can’t report people if we don’t know they are breaking rules. Do you just assume that everyone who owns a house is hoarding and report then just in case? That’ll increase PM’s workload even more. Expecting PM on their own to be the magic solution isn’t the solution. That’s just silly. 

I said in my original post that there has to be a better way to go around the issue. And offered it as one way to approach the issue. Implementing such taxes isn't going to solve any issues, it will just cause minor complications to the owners of the house and skyrocket the rent fees, that's all.

[HeyMambo]

Just now, Stanty said:

I said in my original post that there has to be a better way to go around the issue. And offered it as one way to approach the issue. Implementing such taxes isn't going to solve any issues, it will just cause minor complications to the owners of the house and skyrocket the rent fees, that's all.

People shouldn’t be buying standalone houses to just turn around and rent them. These houses should be for people that USE them for their own role play, not farm them for script money. This is the fundamental issue with the entire situation. 
 

There has to be negative cash flow or the inflation will only get worse. There is too much money coming in and not enough going out. Simple economics. Like it or not, taxes help this case. They can be adjusted based on the market value of the house so that lower houses don’t end up paying so much. It’s a necessary evil or the economy only gets worse. 

[maramizo]

2 minutes ago, Stanty said:

(1) A few people who don't want to lose money will sell their houses instantly.

(2) Players who don't care about tax will buy them and you will end up in the same position.

(3) Only a few players will sell their houses because of that and the buyers won't ever let go of the property, same as it is right now.

 

It's tough determining this, because we don't have the statistics on the average income of a person compared to their property price. This can be true, but it can be false. It really depends on the statistic. If, say, a majority of houses is owned by a minority of players that do not have that sort of cash flow, then you'd be wrong.

 

Moving from there, if they do then it becomes a question of would they really hold onto it solely to hold onto it even given they're losing that much cash?

 

Moving on from THAT, it becomes a question of how many people own multiple houses? Should these guys get special taxes or just get prevented from holding multiple properties altogether?

 

Picture John Doe. John has $2,000,000 with no income. John is now spending a good amount of cash to keep his house that he's not even using. Would John really keep the house? How long would he keep it for until he's broke?

 

Combine this combination, with a prevention of owning multiple houses, and you have yourself a system that will efficiently prevent hoarders. Note that hoarders here doesn't specifically mean that you have multiple houses, but rather an amount of houses that you should not have. Even if you have 1 house, but your character has no cash flow, you're not roleplaying nor creating any source of income, then you really shouldn't be owning an expensive house.

 

Just now, Stanty said:

I said in my original post that there has to be a better way to go around the issue. And offered it as one way to approach the issue. Implementing such taxes isn't going to solve any issues, it will just cause minor complications to the owners of the house and skyrocket the rent fees, that's all.

 

Keep in mind the suggestion aims to only be applied to houses that are more expensive than a specific threshold. This should see the rental market generally unaffected unless if we're speaking about this specific portion of houses.

[Stanty]

1 minute ago, Numelo said:

People shouldn’t be buying standalone houses to just turn around and rent them. These houses should be for people that USE them for their own role play, not farm them for script money. This is the fundamental issue with the entire situation. 
 

There has to be negative cash flow or the inflation will only get worse. There is too much money coming in and not enough going out. Simple economics. Like it or not, taxes help this case. They can be adjusted based on the market value of the house so that lower houses don’t end up paying so much. It’s a necessary evil or the economy only gets worse. 

 

It is realistic to rent houses and I don't see an issue with that.

 

Just as I said, your 'taxes' will simply cause minor inconvenience to the owners which isn't even necessary. They own a house, let them enjoy it.

 

Your main concern is that players do not sell houses and this strategy is not going to make them sell their properties.

I have been trying to purchase a house for my character as well because it makes perfect sense for my character to own a house. If I happen to get my hands on one, I am not going to sell it for as long as I have my character and your taxes will cause nothing but annoyance. It's not going to make me want to sell the house.

[maramizo]

7 minutes ago, Numelo said:

People shouldn’t be buying standalone houses to just turn around and rent them. These houses should be for people that USE them for their own role play, not farm them for script money. This is the fundamental issue with the entire situation. 

This is also a very true point. Why are you renting out houses if you're not using them yourself? Let the other guys, that will put in effort and work, buy them themselves. Why middleman this for script money, causing an inflation yourself? I agree with this 100%, knowing that people can also get mortgages if they want to buy a house over an extended period of time.

 

3 minutes ago, Stanty said:

I have been trying to purchase a house for my character as well because it makes perfect sense for my character to own a house. If I happen to get my hands on one, I am not going to sell it for as long as I have my character and your taxes will cause nothing but annoyance. It's not going to make me want to sell the house.

And that's good. If you can afford the taxes? Then you're the right person for it! You're not a hoarder. The issue is with inactive characters that solely have the houses to keep them as assets.

 

Edit:

Or even active characters that realistically would not afford to live a property with a high upkeep.

Edited June 4, 2021 by maramizo

[JustAnM43]

Quote

Active players that can get money and accurately gain and acquire large portions of wealth, that can properly roleplay and give life to the property, naturally have the advantage.

I don't agree with this. I work 12 hour shifts and stupid overtime hours and I still try my best to stay active but sometimes it's a struggle. I use the property I have which is a house. Unfortunately, the system itself is stupid as fuck. Cars that should NOT be a lease are a lease, which forces me to pay stupid prices for them that nobody in their right mind would pay IRL. Alongside that, you're forced to pay house payments for the house requests which often bleeds you dry. Are we talking realism? My character can 100% afford his property and vehicles because they're literally 60's shitboxes. (Mind you, these are leases. Why?) My money's being OOC-ly drained for stupid reasons and now I get milked for an "upkeep" tax too?

 

I try my best to be active, and no I don't have a mansion. Maintaining my property should be relatively easy realism speaking, but unfortunately the prices on this server make it impossible to do. Why should I get OOC-ly punished for trying to properly roleplay? Am I supposed to start script wise grinding to afford two fucking cars and a house for a character that's got three years of backstory? I'd be all up for this if this server didn't milk people's money on the stupidest of shit, but for now, I'm kind of against it. I do countless hours of research on the vehicles and the property my character has to make sure the financial part of roleplay adds up, and then the server decides "haha lol fuck realism go be a mechanic to afford a house." I'd be OK with this if the prices weren't so stupid. People are being OOC-ly milked for money for the silliest of things, and this shouldn't be one of them.

[Stanty]

1 minute ago, maramizo said:

And that's good. If you can afford the taxes? Then you're the right person for it! You're not a hoarder. The issue is with inactive characters that solely have the houses to keep them as assets.

 

If someone is inactive to the point that they do not have any cash flow, the house will be removed due to inactivity. You lose your property for 15 days of inactivity. But also, if you log in-game to do nothing but to simply avoid the inactivity timer, property management will remove your house.

 

So let's assume I manage to purchase a house and it makes perfect sense for my character. What's the purpose of the taxes? It's not going to make me want to sell the property. It will only cause the annoyance.

 

Players who hold onto the houses for a long period of time are the ones who can afford it. I am sure most of them have multiple millions on their balance and even if you focus on your character without a care about your house, you will have a cash flow.

 

On top of that. Character activity doesn't necessarily mean activity of the property. A player might own a flat and focus their RP there and never show up to their house, they just hold this house forever because they think it might be useful for the future. How are you going to control that? That player is not inactive but the property is still inactive.

 

Add the taxes if you want but I know for sure that it's not going to solve any issues. It will simply annoy house owners.

 

And you also mentioned someone who has $2,000,000. It's going to take about two actual years until your taxes make them run out of money, which is also impossible because if they regularly play they have a cash flow. Again, if they don't play regularly and they come in-game to AFK for the sake of keeping their property, management is going to remove their property.