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What is the deal with property trading?


Slamdance

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1 hour ago, verrevert said:

 

Being able to afford a property ≠ Being able to purchase a property.

Not being able to obtain a house = not being able to obtain a house.

 

If price control is causing there to be no market for housing because the money is worth less than the property, then price control doesn't work.

Edited by Christopher
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Just 11 pages, wasn't even that long. 

 

 So first, I want to mention that inflation is something that is bound to happen in the community, no matter what we do, it will happen as it does in real world. Third world countries struggle with crazy inflations and seeing it in a simulation of real life isn't unexpected at all.

 

 The problem with houses though, is most obviously their low amount on the server. When the number of people who want to own a house exceeds the number of houses in general by such a big margin, this is bound to happen as the distribution isn't even close to the requests. So the owners of the so-much-wanted houses will believe the idea that their asset is priceless (Which with such a shortage of them, they basically are).  Someone mentioned that there are way more house owners than apartment owners in the US and that's a very interesting fact to look into. You have to observe the number of available houses and apartments while that data was collected; as in there are way more houses in the US than apartments and that will prevent that fact from relating to our issue. The best solution would be increasing the number of houses and even then, it should be done with alot of administration and supervision since history suggests the community itself is greedier than to be trusted to adjust the prices within itself. 

 

 The 200k starter paychecks are actually one of the great things about this server since they make you skip grinding on characters that aren't broke and aren't 15, and even if you're going to RP broke or 15, you can always /charity the money to get rid of it or just ignore having it. The 200k paychecks resemble a ton of different ways that your character could've achieved that money though their backstory and if we think of it as the equivalent of 20,000 USD (which is hard to do, I know!) it's not much to begin with anyways. 

 

 I am not the most knowledgeable when it comes to economy studies and administration but I just wanted to express my thoughts as a concerned member of the community. I do believe that the restrictions on prices only have upsides for us in general and we have to think of other means to boost their market, starting with increasing the number of houses in general which would directly show effect in the market's prices. If we can manage to match the requests with enough options, the prices will ultimately balance out.

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6 hours ago, Numelo said:

What you’re suggesting also lives in theory.

No it doesn't at all. That is literally how it works in real life. There is no artificial pricing controls on IRL houses. I live in the U.S right now where the housing market hot prices are going sky rocketing. If the U.S Government were to limit prices people to keep houses affordable then nobody would be selling houses and the shortage we already experience would be ten times worse. At the end of the day Math is math. No one is going to sell something for a price if they are being forced to lose money.

 

Again don't get why this is a debate. Tell me what about the IG economy would prevent the issues price control cause. Only thing would be the unlimited supply of cars to the market only real difference. The laws of supply and demand don't change just because it's a videogame. Even if you can create an unlimited supply of a good in a vvideogam laws and demand still apply. Unlimited supply just equal dirt cheap prices.

Edited by Power
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1 hour ago, Christopher said:

Not being able to obtain a house = not being able to obtain a house.

 

If price control is causing there to be no market for housing because the money is worth less than the property, then price control doesn't work.

Except the purpose of price control is to provide equal opportunity in terms of affordability of property, which it does. Is price control one of the contributing factors to stagnation? Absolutely yes because monetary gain is the primary motive for selling property, but the alternative is that, as we've seen on x amount of servers (and real life), house prices will rise to a point where new players, and eventually regular players, are isolated entirely from the housing market which is a much, much harder problem to solve. That is why alternative solutions should be provided to counter the effects of price control i.e. unrestricting houses from PM to increase supply, making houses a negative demand with taxes, restricting the amount of properties one can own, creating more purchaseable goods, offering benefits to those that live within apartments etc.

 

 

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I used to scream about the economy and things like this, but at the time, people’s response was that it’s all for the role play and that the economy should serve that. 
 

Price controls don’t help that. All the market value-based price caps on property value did for me was make me less inclined to sell any standalone house I owned, because the physical property is infinitely more valuable than the artificial cap. If you’re going to make a price cap on property, at least have the market value change by the value of its most recent sale, or some other mode of issuing value that is dynamic through time. 
 

Houses are capped at the same values they were when the server was half as large, the money in circulation has run away with itself. If the housing prices aren’t sorted, it’s going to continue to be an issue of scarcity and first-come-first-serve for scalpers. It’s not like the old days, many people have eclipsed the million or two million mark. 
 

There would be more opportunity for players if these houses were actually on the market. Right now, no matter the price cap, there is not that opportunity. You need to let these people sell their houses for what they are actually worth in the context of the modern server, or they just won’t do it, and you get what we’re getting now. Homes with exterior facades are the most valuable residential properties around. 

Edited by pogoyo
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So the answer is price controls where essential everyone unless you know the right person is isolated from the housing market.

 

3 hours ago, verrevert said:

house prices will rise to a point where new players, and eventually regular players, are isolated entirely from the housing market which is a much, much harder problem to solve

NW

 

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On 6/2/2021 at 2:37 AM, Schadler17 said:

Welcome to Economics 101. When you give everyone and their mother 200k for afking, don't expect properties to sell for 250k.

The economy as it is is inflated as all hell and its simply not worth it to even sell a property at 3x the market value.

 

Remove the market value limit, let players determine the price for properties, and you'll actually see them get listed more often.

Create property taxes that owners must pay regardless of in-game time, simply to make owning a property a constant investment and not feasibly worth owning if you're not actively using it for something.

 

As it sits, I can buy a house, then login once or twice per month just to prevent it from automatically getting removed, and unless someone reports it, it goes unseen. Fix that by adding fees behind owning a property or another method of making it require a constant investment. Maintenance fee's, property taxes, etc... All can be implemented and managed through the UCP or property menu.

 

They should put in a fat tax if you have more than one apartment. When your money runs out, it goes back to the state. 

 

As it is, the housing is broken. There's only a few left for sale and half of them are luxury apartments most wouldn't have.

 

My idea would make it so people who soft AFK for months ( log in twice a week ) lose their properties because they lack the money to keep paying for them. This would in turn introduce fresh houses for sale.

 

And to people saying the 200K is doing this-- bollocks. 200K is a decent amount, but if you want a car ( and you do ) you won't be left with enough money to buy most properties. The starting money isn't the problem. Grinding jobs is. Once your assets are past, say 250,000$ you shouldn't be able to grind money anymore.

Edited by arandomgamer
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4 hours ago, pogoyo said:

You need to let these people sell their houses for what they are actually worth in the context of the modern server, or they just won’t do it, and you get what we’re getting now.

So you're okay with Davis houses eventually selling for millions of dollars and nicer areas for even more? That's what is going to happen. This only benefits people who have the money already. It hurts people who are new or don't role play having that kind of money or prefer some type of realism instead of treating that number in the top right of the screen as an OOC number. Uncapped housing only works when everyone has a lot of money. A few hundred thousand in the bank will pale in comparison when houses and even apartments are multi-millions of dollars. This has been tried and failed in other servers.

11 hours ago, verrevert said:

I am very well aware of economic theory, and agree - price control has historically never worked in the real world, however, we are within a scripted game world. The purpose of price control on this server is to prevent a stupid growth in house prices to the point where new players could not afford property, which would happen because there is only three significant purchaseable goods on the server: property, vehicles, and guns/drugs. Within our system, new players can afford new property and is why within the context of our server, price control does work - equal opportunity for all whether they joined a day ago or four years ago.

 

You cannot increase the supply because we are hard-capped by the amount of houses on the GTA V map, so the alternative is to create a negative demand for houses i.e. an hourly house tax that varies on area.

 

Our economy is nothing like a real-world economy because it is a closed, scripted economy without outside influence, which is why adjustments need to be made using our own economic theory that suit our parameters, not real world theory.

👏👏👏👏

Edited by Numelo
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