What is the deal with property trading?

[pogoyo]

There is nothing that will make one of fifty identical apartments in an apartment complex skyrocket to a prohibitive value for new players. I don't consider that argument to be very strong, although in theory, the "runaway inflation" idea locking out new players makes sense. There is a scarcity problem, but only because players are getting choosy.

 

This thread is about an absence in high-end, typically standalone properties on market. These are the properties everyone covets, people are choosy for, and which have seen reduced trade. By a line of argument written before in this thread, Grove Street houses are probably part of that model, and that is an unfortunate divergence from the real-world property value that we, as a server, intend to portray there.

 

That aside, the properties that would see value exceeding their current price cap are most likely all unique, middle class or socioeconomically greater structures. They don't sell, because those lucky enough to own them know that they confer greater IC environment and prestige than the current sale value would replace.  Mirror Park, Vespucci, the canals and otherwise are good examples of this.

 

Frankly, there is no reason a new player should have equal opportunity to scalp and purchase "highly coveted" structures like that, by luck of the draw on reset time. That's what role playing a career is for. Continuity, development, and ultimately, achievement, for some.

Edited June 4, 2021 by pogoyo

[Mahiko]

5 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

Taxes seems like a good solution, with a dramatic bank-busting increase per property owned unless the property is an apartment and you're a registered landlord. Houses on the other hand should specifically require activity to purchase and own, something a high property tax on secondary households can definitely make possible.

 

We'd see people dropping excess property ownership like pinless hand grenades once those second houses start eating massively into their bank accounts.

No, not taxes. Maintence costs, and other things. This isn't a socialist empire. The Government recieves enough as is. 

[hillievonb]

2 hours ago, pogoyo said:

This thread is about an absence in high-end, typically standalone properties on market. These are the properties everyone covets, people are choosy for, and which have seen reduced trade. By a line of argument written before in this thread, Grove Street houses are probably part of that model, and that is an unfortunate divergence from the real-world property value that we, as a server, intend to portray there.

 

That aside, the properties that would see value exceeding their current price cap are most likely all unique, middle class or socioeconomically greater structures. They don't sell, because those lucky enough to own them know that they confer greater IC environment and prestige than the current sale value would replace.  Mirror Park, Vespucci, the canals and otherwise are good examples of this.

 

The rustiest, trashiest trailer in Sandy Shores would skyrocket in price too. Anywhere outside of the city would reach absurd prices.

 

[DasFroggy]

41 minutes ago, Mahiko said:

No, not taxes. Maintence costs, and other things. This isn't a socialist empire. The Government recieves enough as is. 

That's fair, as long as there's a money drain. A second house should be a bank-busting affair, if allowed at all.

[Alyssa McCarthy]

Under the current system, new players have even less chance of owning a house than under a free market.

 

By limiting house prices, the situation has been made worse.

[HeyMambo]

7 hours ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

Under the current system, new players have even less chance of owning a house than under a free market.

 

By limiting house prices, the situation has been made worse.

Respectfully, you are incorrect. You obviously haven’t seen what happens to an RP housing market when it’s left uncapped. Eventually we reach the same issue. Houses cost so much to the point that no one is left to buy them. More than once, I saw Davis houses that cost 3-4 million dollars for a bare bones setup. This doesn’t benefit the market at all. It would be a bandaid until we reach the same tipping point. It’s not the long term solution. It drives away new players completely. 
 

Negative cash flow and increasing the housing supply (as much as it can be) and the apartment / condo supply is the only solution at this point. Maybe you could gradually take off the price controls or at least increase them once it is all introduced but at this moment, it would be a disaster. 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Numelo

[Lurleen]

9 hours ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

Under the current system, new players have even less chance of owning a house than under a free market.

 

By limiting house prices, the situation has been made worse.

Exactly, in a free market a player would either grind or roleplay to get moeny and once they get millions they would be able to purchase that rusty trailer house at sandy shores. Thing is, it wouldnt be realistic a place like that to cost that much so the admins solve that issue not allowing those properties to be sold at all.

[Alyssa McCarthy]

1 hour ago, Numelo said:

Respectfully, you are incorrect. You obviously haven’t seen what happens to an RP housing market when it’s left uncapped. Eventually we reach the same issue. Houses cost so much to the point that no one is left to buy them. More than once, I saw Davis houses that cost 3-4 million dollars for a bare bones setup. This doesn’t benefit the market at all. It would be a bandaid until we reach the same tipping point. It’s not the long term solution. It drives away new players completely. 
 

Negative cash flow and increasing the housing supply (as much as it can be) and the apartment / condo supply is the only solution at this point. Maybe you could gradually take off the price controls or at least increase them once it is all introduced but at this moment, it would be a disaster. 

 

 

No, I'm not wrong.

 

Under the current system, new players can't dream to get a house right now. The very problem you fear from a free market is already here , fast forwarded onto the server and made far worse by creating pricing limits which has forced a new currency on the server, (houses). 

 

What you don't seem to understand is that we're already at a point where a new player can't dream of getting a house and the only way players can really obtain nice houses is via OOC friend groups and/or house trades, which is a far worse situation than pretty much any alternative I can think of.

 

The difference is under the current system is that it doesn't matter if a player has 200k or 2M because money is currently worthless and the new currency is housing exchanges. 

 

[HeyMambo]

6 minutes ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

 

No, I'm not wrong.

 

Under the current system, new players can't dream to get a house right now. The very problem you fear from a free market is already here , fast forwarded onto the server and made far worse by creating pricing limits which has forced a new currency on the server, (houses). 

 

What you don't seem to understand is that we're already at a point where a new player can't dream of getting a house and the only way players can really obtain nice houses is via OOC friend groups and/or house trades, which is a far worse situation than pretty much any alternative I can think of.

 

The difference is under the current system is that it doesn't matter if a player has 200k or 2M because money is currently worthless and the new currency is housing exchanges. 

 

What I proposed and what others have suggested with negative cash flow and increasing the supply of housing and apartments would help alleviate that. Leaving a market completely uncapped would be wrong. Sorry. Again, unless you've actually been apart of a server where it's happened, you won't understand. You are mistaken, if you think that's the answer. We will agree to disagree at this point because I can see you're not going to change your position and neither am I. I've seen first hand what an uncapped market does to the housing economy and how it trickles down to every other facet of the economy. It's not the answer.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Numelo

[Alyssa McCarthy]

With respect, those other servers clearly didn't have a very good economic model either. I actually agree that a move towards negative cash flow should be a thing, but that's besides the point. You disagreed with me saying caps are a bad idea & this is why you are incorrect.

 

If you read my posts on the economy in other threads, you'll see i've explained why we have the issue we have multiple times. Failure by server staff (here or on other servers), to create a realistic economy is why such servers end up in the situation we're discussing. (It's also a reason why crime is meaningless, being 'wealthy' means nothing & currency is worthless).

 

The whole reason this issue exists is hyper-inflation & supply vs demand. Placing price caps on high demand items such as housing  only adds to the problem because it expedites the time in which money becomes valueless. 

 

This is what happens in any economic system where you create cash from nothing (see plenty of real world examples of where countries have tried this) & that is what has happened here & on the servers you are talking about.

 

Hundreds of millions of dollars are created by admins from nothing in order to make everyone super wealthy and to fund the major factions and grind jobs. This has made cash worthless as people who have been here for a long time have been able to amass millions in wealth & have neither outgoings or anything to spend their cash on.

 

When you add property caps to this system, you make cash meaningless because players won't sell 'high value' items like houses for something that holds almost zero value and instead create a new currency, (in this case housing). In doing so, congratulations, you've failed to resolve the issue at hand and have made the system far worse than better because you thought you knew more about economics rather than base your economy off the real world.

 

Pacifying new players who think they deserve 'everything' within a few days of playing is not how any economy which is trying to be serious should ever be created.