Lower script wages

[.Pluto.]

5 minutes ago, hipsxn said:

4k is enough. The economy doesn't exist anymore. No need to change it.

did u saw lsrp economy? kekw

 

Just now, mj2002 said:

It's a decent enough change to not dissuade people entirely from working in a 24/7, but it helps put a dent in generated money. This is important to curb inflation on things like properties.

i dont work for that anyways but im thinking about new players. can be lowered if the script gets fixed, because if theres no one around the business? everyone needs to spam "/ame sighs" to get their paycheck, instead of spending time while theres no one around

[Pádraig]

Please.

The $4,000 made sense two years ago when the server was in its infancy. Now we have so many businesses and government projects desperate for staff but can't find them partly because staff is sucked up by shitter script jobs.

[Koko]

23 minutes ago, mj2002 said:

It's a decent enough change to not dissuade people entirely from working in a 24/7, but it helps put a dent in generated money. This is important to curb inflation on things like properties.

I don't disagree, but one of the problems with inflation in terms of properties is the fact that people hold on to properties after a namechange or a CK, and that there's properties that are hoarded due to their perceived potential value OOC over their value IC (poor County area properties, South Central housing), it's not an issue with people generating too much money as much as it is that these assets have grown to be seen through the lens of the OOC value placed on them due to the lack of supply of housing.

 

Script business pay is already what marks the line of minimum wage for many jobs as it is. All that this will do in the long run is make large businessowners richer by reducing the wages of their RP staff, which will make RP businesses also become understaffed (and businesses already struggle to get long-term workers in the form of bartenders and waiters other than those that do it for a weekend and never show up again) and in the long-term will only quicken the rate at which large businesses all become a monopoly in the hands of even fewer people.

[Sixty]

1 hour ago, Colm Doyle said:

I agree with what you have said. I however have a counter argument as to why it shouldn't be changed. And it is very simple really.

 

Not everyone can spend hours a day on GTA:W. Most people have real life jobs. And what you are proposing it going to punish those people who can only log in for 2-3 hours a day to RP. Not everyone can sit online 12 hours a day grinding away to make cash.

 

Not to mention, scripted jobs is limited to 3 hours a day.

 

[knppel]

2 hours ago, mj2002 said:

This is a completely different discussion. Please don't conflate the two.

 

On topic, I agree that the $4000 is too much, but $2000 is too low. Things should be approached gradually, and then evaluated for their impact.

 

$3500 is a better start.

I highly advice against simple tweaking of single numbers in the economy that do not take other factors in account (like it was also done with business opening support).

 

It sounds good in theory, but doesn't take the mentioned other factors in account, and economy is a complex matter.

Turn a wheel on one side, and all the engine moves, not just the part that's at first obvious.

 

The core problem, on that behalf, is that we have effectively three categories of jobs:

-Player-offered ones, where you get paid directly ic. Risky for the employee (they might have to run after their money), expensive for the employer.

-/startshift-supported jobs: More secure for the employee, as they receive their money by script. Typically cost-free for employers, or much cheaper. In a team of players that works together, opposed to a dynamically staffed business, workers effectively create revenue for the business.

-Faction jobs that pay in various degrees, flat and/or by the hour for activity.

 

A bit more in detail, many businesses do not have the necessary revenue to employ a significant number of staff and pay them accordingly to motivate them to take the risk over a (self- or else-employed) job where the salary is secure (may it be faction or business-script).

Lowering salaries there- the one predictable effect of this change, see below- by lowering those paid in the startshift-jobs won't make these (player-ran) jobs more attractive.

It will make them less attractive, in fact.

 

In character, this suggestion can be viewed as lobbying by business managers who want to dump salaries after we just got extra money already from higher business support funds.

Would be interesting to see a town hall debate where politicians explain workers why this is gonna happen.

Obviously I am not just kidding here, instead to change single numbers by suggestion and ooc interest, we should let our senate evaluate the subsidies and paychecks it pays. What's worst to happen? Nervous has to tell them their changes can't happen, same as with weed.

 

tl;dr,

Don't tweak single numbers in a big machine without to take other factors in account.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by knppel

[Koko]

9 hours ago, arrdef said:

In real life United States, the federal minimum wage will not allow anyone to comfortably pay rent AND invest any money in fancy or even decent cars, let alone hobbies or clothes. Local minimum wages are rarely much better.

This helps illegal roleplayers too. The number 1 driver for antisocial and criminal behavior is low income. People become drug addicts to escape the dread of rent payments. Unions can also have an actual political reason to exist too.

 

Also, the fact of the matter is that this is an RPQM issue, not a script issue. GTA:W's management and admins have pretty much repeatedly hammered down that asset money is not IC, and that you are meant to RP your economic level according to your job. If you see your local 19 year old LTD cashier driving a Pariah and they're NOT selling vast amounts of cocaine on the side, then that's just bad portrayal and something that can be reported.

[ZaE]

4 hours ago, Jennie said:

I think that $4000 is enough and shouldn't be lowered, it's a game and making those 4000 costs 1 hour, an hour of play is a lot and I doubt that a user will spend a full hour or more doing nothing in a store.

 

[Zayyy]

2 hours ago, Pádraig said:

Please.

The $4,000 made sense two years ago when the server was in its infancy. Now we have so many businesses and government projects desperate for staff but can't find them partly because staff is sucked up by shitter script jobs.

 

[Koko]

2 hours ago, Pádraig said:

Now we have so many businesses and government projects desperate for staff but can't find them partly because staff is sucked up by shitter script jobs.

Most businesses can't find staff because they offer the same overall experience and depth than any script job does, but without letting the employee choose when to work (and many places being absolutely unreliable about when they open). Being a guard at a door, or serving drinks at a club is really not leagues ahead working a script business. In fact I'd much rather work a grocery store than be security at a door for the level of engagement or actual RP offered.

 

Government projects struggle to find people because GOV RP requires a higher level of dedication, independence, creativity and self-sufficiency for RP (as the person who led a whole GOV for a community center in Davis), and also because it's very badly publicized. Most people DON'T go to the City GOV listings to find a job, unless they're already dedicated players that probably won't go for a script job anyway.

 

tl;dr: 90% of player-given jobs are shit and you might as well be doing a script job but under their terms for what it's worth.

 

 

[Mahiko]

I think removing the 4k an hour would be fair, if you then removed the limit on entries to businesses and lowered it from 1k. Forcing people to be competitive about wages and paying out of their own pockets.