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Appealing Admin Records?


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5 minutes ago, HaminLord said:

Bro I just said my opinion, I never tried arguing or anything lmao, I personally think they should permanently stay on your record, simple as that

Fair enough I guess. I was just hoping you had some reasoning behind that other than "Because"

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17 minutes ago, Harbinger said:

It kinda shows the growth of you as a person or roleplayer, so it's still relevant even after three years or so.


An interesting answer. 

Why do you feel you're entitled to be shown the growth of a person or roleplayer, and further why do you feel that expunging of a no longer relevant record and thus cleaning the slate of a person is somehow showing less growth? 

 

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5 minutes ago, TheSaintEaon said:


An interesting answer. 

Why do you feel you're entitled to be shown the growth of a person or roleplayer, and further why do you feel that expunging of a no longer relevant record and thus cleaning the slate of a person is somehow showing less growth? 

 

They didn't say it was showing less growth.

They said it was showing growth. And by that they probably meant that they've more formed as a player the community can accept if there is a long standing trend of good behavior and no rule breaking/good decision making.

Because not all rules are intentionally broken. 

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Just now, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

They didn't say it was showing less growth.

They said it was showing growth. And by that they probably meant that they've more formed as a player the community can accept if there is a long standing trend of good behavior and no rule breaking/good decision making.

Because not all rules are intentionally broken. 

 

While they did not expressly state that, it is implied by their stance. 

If having a record available shows growth, then by that same logic, not having a record shows no growth. I might be wrong in that assumption and if I am, he's free to clarify and I'm happy to clarify my thoughts as well ^.^ 

My thoughts are actually similar to what you posted, with the aside of, the community doesn't get to tell a player what they do and do not accept based upon their OOC records. OOC records at the most should be restricted to Admins for the purposes of decision making or agencies like the PD who do PF Licensing, specifically in regards to said license. 

A player or player run organisation that uses OOC Reports or A-Jails to determine the validity of a roleplayer is metagaming by definition. The fact that they are allowed to still be on the server means they are by definition a valid player, and so using OOC records against them is actually to be in violation yourself. 

Which ultimately brings us back around to the point I was trying to make earlier, what is the point in having a record if it can be so old that its functionally irrelevant? Personally I could see like two ways to resolve this: First no player or player run agency can ask to see your OOC Records. They are sealed and that is between the player and the Administration. The second is that records after a certain amount of time if no further infractions are committed, then the infractions should be removed. 

I think either is acceptable. 

 

 

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X seems like a good way to over burden the staff team with more paperwork. + i think its pointless to have your record wiped if you've been a good noodle for a few years cus legal factions / staff dont really hold historic offenses over your head when considering you for recruitment.

 

(this is coming from someone with ban record longer than a CVS receipt)

 

just remember god loves you and has a plan for you amen

Edited by sherald
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16 minutes ago, TheSaintEaon said:

My thoughts are actually similar to what you posted, with the aside of, the community doesn't get to tell a player what they do and do not accept based upon their OOC records. OOC records at the most should be restricted to Admins for the purposes of decision making or agencies like the PD who do PF Licensing, specifically in regards to said license. 

A player or player run organisation that uses OOC Reports or A-Jails to determine the validity of a roleplayer is metagaming by definition. The fact that they are allowed to still be on the server means they are by definition a valid player, and so using OOC records against them is actually to be in violation yourself. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Legal factions do use admin history in the process of admission to the faction for every applicant. Because obviously if someone is a known trouble maker, metagamer, DMer or what have you, giving them access to easily abused mechanics can cast the faction in a bad light or even get the faction in bad standing with it's respective faction managers. The reason that's not done in illegal factions is because no illegal faction has made that an obligation upon entry into their faction.

I'd go as far as to say that the reason they don't make that obligation is because a good chunk, I'm not saying all - are friends or at least know each other so they don't require that. Because in the instance that someone that is in their circle of friends gets administratively punished, then they would be obligated to eject them from the gang in turn. And people don't want to do that. Because they're friends. Legal factions however, do not subscribe to that for the most part. If there is an egregious rule break that one of their members has been punished for, they get ejected from the faction on an OOC basis. And you can be ejected from a legal faction for so much as leaking information deemed sensitive and also punished for it. It's there plain as day as something you consent to by becoming a member of said faction, or even section within the faction.

Booting someone OOC from your faction for their OOC behavior is not metagaming. And like it or not, rule breaks are considered OOC. It's not saying "Yo generic gang bang number 6, you can't hang out with us anymore." it's saying "Hey, we have to look out for our faction and we just don't think you're a good fit for the further progression of the faction."

Edited by SaintBatemanofWallStreet
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4 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Legal factions do use admin history in the process of admission to the faction for every applicant. Because obviously if someone is a known trouble maker, metagamer, DMer or what have you, giving them access to easily abused mechanics can cast the faction in a bad light or even get the faction in bad standing with it's respective faction managers. The reason that's not done in illegal factions is because no illegal faction has made that an obligation upon entry into their faction.

I'd go as far as to say that the reason they don't make that obligation is because a good chunk, I'm not saying all - are friends or at least know each other so they don't require that. Because in the instance that someone that is in their circle of friends gets administratively punished, then they would be obligated to eject them from the gang in turn. And people don't want to do that. Because they're friends. Legal factions however, do not subscribe to that for the most part. If there is an egregious rule break that one of their members has been punished for, they get ejected from the faction on an OOC basis. And you can be ejected from a legal faction for so much as leaking information deemed sensitive and also punished for it. It's there plain as day as something you consent to by becoming a member of said faction, or even section within the faction.

Booting someone OOC from your faction for their OOC behavior is not metagaming. And like it or not, rule breaks are considered OOC. It's not saying "Yo generic gang bang number 6, you can't hang out with us anymore." it's saying "Hey, we have to look out for our faction and we just don't think you're a good fit for the further progression of the faction."

Maybe. I think though that if someone is a known troublemaker, metagamer, and DMer, that's going to be on their record for awhile. Do you think that someone that does an excessive amount of these things is going to be able to be active for 12 to 18 months and not continually rack up more reports? Under my idea, you have to have No new reports in order to get your slate wiped clean and any new report starts the timer for all of the existing reports all over again. Meaning any serial offenders are still going to have records accessible. 

OOC Ejections from factions based on OOC Ruling in any case excluding factions such as the PD are not acceptable unless the infraction was committed against the faction that person is in. I don't know if guild banks are like a thing here, but for example: If someone stole from the faction's bank and asset transfered it over to an alt. That faction should be allowed to remove that dick and he deserves the multiple A-jails or temp bans he gets. 

However if a dude is RPing a cop who's been down on his luck or awhile and then in RP he one day snaps and shoots a repeat offender, and that later gets voided by an admin due to poor portrayal or something, I don't think that's a valid reason to remove someone from a faction. IC actions that result in OOC consequences should not affect IC. 

OOC Kicks are legitimately metagaming and if you have Generic Gangbanger #6 hanging around your faction trying to join it and you think he's not a good fit, CK him. I don't think there's a single illegal faction on the board that doesn't include the right to CK people who fuck up ICly. If he's fucking up OOCly, report him to the admins, they'll probably be happy to remove another troll. 

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15 minutes ago, sherald said:

 think its pointless to have your record wiped if you've been a good noodle for a few years cus legal factions / staff dont really hold historic offenses over your head when considering you for recruitment.

 

If they don't hold it over your head, then having the record is pointless. The point of the record is so that it can be referred to and decisions can be made because of it. If its not being used, then don't keep the record. 

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