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General Wonkiness with PF Licensing Rules


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To start, if this is posted in the wrong area or breaking some kinda rule, obviously lock it or move the thread. I don't really make posts here often so this might not be in the right spot or something, and if that's the case I apologize. 

The reason I'm making this thread though is the general strangeness of some of the OOC rules surrounding PF Licensing. Specifically the part about, if you get a fire arm via legal means (going through the PF/CCW process) you are generally forbidden to use these weapons for illegal things OOCly. 

I don't get this. I am a fairly new account so there may be a huge discussion that I'm not privy to about why this is the a thing (and if that discussion does exist, please PM me the link and feel free to lock this thread), but I really don't see why that has to be an OOC Rule. 

I don't know how much of the staff/server is EU, but as an American, we have rules that aim to help stop the use of legally purchased fire arms illegally. For instance if you have mental illness that has been adjudicated by a court, you're a violent felon, or you're displaying behaviors that indicate you might be a threat to other people, you can have your Second Amendment rights revoked. Even non-violent felons actually have their 2A rights revoked and have to go through a process to regain those rights once their debt to society is paid. 

I feel like it wouldn't be too much of a stretch in GTAW to have these laws apply. Instead of outright blocking IC behavior with honestly convoluted OOC rules, just allow the police/courts/political systems ICly to play out and punish offenders. If the argument is that it would make it very easy for criminals to acquire legal fire arms to then use illegally, I think that's a bad argument. There are more fire arms in America that are registered (not even counting the illegal ones) than there are citizens already. If the police are competent (and they seem to be), and the other IC systems at play work, the IC laws should take care of most problems anyway. 

So to end my rambling, and give a tl;dr: Why are the OOC rules against using legal fire arms a thing. Why don't we use IC systems to control these issues. In your opinion if this can be changed, should it. 

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Hi.

 

The only OOC rule for firearms licenses is:

 

 

  • "(( Must not have any previous or current Gang Affiliations with the applying character or have intentions of Gang Affiliations in the future without notifying a member of Firearms Licensing Division Command to have the license removed.))"

 

This does not prevent you from using it for IC badness, though  generally speaking, acquiring a legal firearm just to go robbing people with it (for example) is a bit derpy.

 

This specific OOC rule exists because it would be very silly to see a small army of 21 year old gang members running around with their lawfully purchased firearm engaging in street gang activity. 

 

You can find more rules/information here:

 

https://fld.gta.world/info/pf.php

 

  • Upvote 1
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1 minute ago, Sam2 said:

Hi.

 

The only OOC rule for firearms licenses is:

 

 

  • "(( Must not have any previous or current Gang Affiliations with the applying character or have intentions of Gang Affiliations in the future without notifying a member of Firearms Licensing Division Command to have the license removed.))"

 

This does not prevent you from using it for IC badness, though  generally speaking, acquiring a legal firearm just to go robbing people with it (for example) is a bit derpy.

 

This specific OOC rule exists because it would be very silly to see a small army of 21 year old gang members running around with their lawfully purchased firearm engaging in street gang activity. 

 

You can find more rules/information here:

 

https://fld.gta.world/info/pf.php

 


Maybe its the definition of "gang" that's causing the issues. 

I for one plan on doing illegal things, but not robbery, because like you mentioned that's a whole level of derpiness and just general kinda stupidity. 

Does Gang specifically define: Street gangs akin to the bloods and crips, or does it also apply to MCs, Mafias or Triads as well?

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The rule basically means you're not going to use your PF to go on a robbery spree or sell them to illegal factions for a quick buck. Everything else is situational; you can commit crimes with your PF but you shouldn't be attaining a PF with the express purpose of committing crimes.

 

The rule exists to stop throw-away characters from attaining a PF and going on crime sprees until they've lost their 2 monthly guns or been CKed/arrested... By which time they'll make a new character and apply for a new PF license. This is called "OOC PF abuse". IC PF abuse is generally alright, but again circumstances may vary.

 

Hope that explains it well enough.

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Just now, TheSaintEaon said:


Maybe its the definition of "gang" that's causing the issues. 

I for one plan on doing illegal things, but not robbery, because like you mentioned that's a whole level of derpiness and just general kinda stupidity. 

Does Gang specifically define: Street gangs akin to the bloods and crips, or does it also apply to MCs, Mafias or Triads as well?

Don't quote me on it but I'm 80% sure it's just street gangs. You'd have to ask FLD for a better answer.

 

Also r.e. letting things play out icly via the courts. You can! If you're a prior felon (preventing you from getting a PF) you can petition a judge to have your record expunged, thus allowing you to acquire a license again.

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Thank you @Sam2 and @Fancy Toothpaste for the replies. Both make sense. I didn't think about how easy it is to create a throw away and just leave them online for 40 hours. 

I was naively assuming most people would just have their main character and thinking "Well even if some dumb 21 year old gang banger got a legal fire arm, let him be stupid. Its illegal to just "lose" your firearms so if he tries to cover it up, bring him up on suspicion charges and take his license for unlawful disposing of a fire arm and give him a prison sentence." 

But that actually does  make a lot more sense. 

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So, personally, I think there are issues when it comes to acquiring them legitimately and of course there's dumbos who exploit the thing but;

It is not unrealistic for gang members to acquire legal firearms irl to conduct crimes. It is NOT a crime, what so ever, to use a "legal firearm" to commit an illegal act, nor is it illegal to buy a firearm with the intent of carrying out illegal acts. There is no difference between using a handgun you bought off some dude vs a legally obtained firearm. If you're able to buy a legal firearm, it is a much safer route because you also won't get arrested for having it unless you for example conceal carry w/o a permit and get caught. 

The only caveats are in some states if the firearm is STOLEN you can get enhancements or other charges, and if you have certain prior felonies (depends on state). 

Edited by Midwest
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2 minutes ago, Midwest said:

So, personally, I think there are issues when it comes to acquiring them legitimately and of course there's dumbos who exploit the thing but;

It is not unrealistic for gang members to acquire legal firearms irl to conduct crimes. It is NOT a crime, what so ever, to use a "legal firearm" to commit an illegal act, nor is it illegal to buy a firearm with the intent of carrying out illegal acts. There is no difference between using a handgun you bought off some dude vs a legally obtained firearm. If you're able to buy a legal firearm, it is a much safer route because you also won't get arrested for having it unless you for example conceal carry w/o a permit and get caught. 

The only caveats are in some states if the firearm is STOLEN you can get enhancements or other charges, and if you have certain prior felonies (depends on state). 


Than you sir. As far as I am concerned the confusion with this thread has been cleared up and its good to lock unless other people feel like hanging out and talkin' about it still. 

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I hate to break it to some people, but for why that OOC rule for gang members exist doesn't really make sense IMO. Why? Because IRL what's stopping gang members or I guess, bad people from obtaining one, it happens. You see all them people gang affiliated posing with guns on social media, doing crime with them etc. I know for a fact a lot, maybe the majority of them are legal. Hell, I'd go on a limb to say a lot of people even have CCWs, being gang affiliated isn't going to stop you from getting a gun legally. It's actually fairly common. In my city a lot of "bad apples" have CCWs  (in my state you don't need a gun license, if you're 18 you can buy a handful at a shop with $ and ID, 21 + for long rifles). Not everyone who is gang affiliated IRL gets a gun illegally. Silly. 

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Forwarded to fld command. 
 

I do gotta comment on how it’s not unrealistic for gang members to obtain a pf? I am gonna disagree. I don’t see realism in a gang member waking into a police station and handing over finger prints, a photo, permission for a background check that included age, address, phone and occupation. These are all easy ways to place someone at a crime and keep eye on their activity. Also most street gangs recruit teenagers who are not even able to apply. Lots have a record before reaching and adult age. I think that rule holds up standards of realism perfectly. We also are very careful on what we mark as a gang. Not ever illegal faction falls into this.  
 

 

 

 

all in all a gun is overly easy to obtain in this server. 

Edited by cryybabyycryy
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