Official standing about IC population portrayal - Thoughts?

[Doosty]

3 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

LFM isn't really there for those who aren't in law enforcement or GOV.

This isn't true at all. There are numerous factions that are supported by LFM that aren't associated with the government or LEOs. That being said, it's hard to accurately encompass the concerns of a wide variety of legal roleplayers. We're far from perfect, so if there's something specific we can help with, please reach out. Otherwise, I assure you we're working diligently to try to make the server enjoyable for everybody. 

[Triple Seven]

17 minutes ago, Doosty said:

This isn't true at all. There are numerous factions that are supported by LFM that aren't associated with the government or LEOs. That being said, it's hard to accurately encompass the concerns of a wide variety of legal roleplayers. We're far from perfect, so if there's something specific we can help with, please reach out. Otherwise, I assure you we're working diligently to try to make the server enjoyable for everybody. 

Great, has LFM looked into the very clear concern voiced in this thread? It is not about a faction but about proper balance between legal and illegal sides ICly and the weight of IFM in the decision to ignore location from crimes committed when it comes to reports/ooc enforcement of rules whereas LFM has been invisible/unmentioned in it.
 

A street being empty at the time of a robbery (to use robbery as an example, it would be equally bad if it were a drug deal (which weirdly aren’t committed in the middle of a road)), even if you accept that being the case, doesn’t mean the office building next to it would be empty, or the store it’s happening in front of is empty, or there aren’t actual characters inside an interior that would be able to see it (literally had this happen with a car being stolen before for example).
 

I get there’s game limitations and all, but for heavy roleplay, you’d expect more thorough thought being put into even crimes of (false) opportunity, because of the aforementioned factors, but as it stands, those are ignored. If you really want heavy roleplay you would also have to consider time in some if not most places, but if you want to cater to players from around the world, that becomes an issue, location however clearly doesn’t and is quite clear.

 

On the subject of robberies, combined with the fear roleplay rule, they are power gaming from start to finish, because the victim does not get a chance to respond as they are to wait for roleplay to be initiated, are then at gunpoint, have to be in fear and areforced to comply, without the ability to return the roleplay with an initial reaction that will surely immediately be turned to getting gunned down. (No one is going to wait with a response when some masked hoodlums run at them)

Edited May 23, 2021 by Triple Seven

[HaveADream]

3 minutes ago, Triple Seven said:

Great, has LFM looked into the very clear concern voiced in this thread? It is not about a faction but about proper balance between legal and illegal sides ICly and the weight of IFM in the decision to ignore location from crimes committed when it comes to reports/ooc enforcement of rules whereas LFM has been invisible/unmentioned in it.
 

A street being empty at the time of a robbery (to use robbery as an example, it would be equally bad if it were a drug deal (which weirdly aren’t committed in the middle of a road)), even if you accept that being the case, doesn’t mean the office building next to it would be empty, or the store it’s happening in front of is empty, or there aren’t actual characters inside an interior that would be able to see it (literally had this happen with a car being stolen before for example).
 

I get there’s game limitations and all, but for heavy roleplay, you’d expect more thorough thought being put into even crimes of (false) opportunity, because of the aforementioned factors, but as it stands, those are ignored. If you really want heavy roleplay you would also have to consider time in some if not most places, but if you want to cater to players from around the world, that becomes an issue, location however clearly doesn’t and is quite clear.

We haven't commented because we weren't included on the actual discussion. We can't rule on something other admins have already done so but we have noted the concerns raised in this topic and will raise queries privately.

[Mór-Ríoghain]

stop playing the server with an us vs them mentality, you want to justify high-crime rates as an excuse for vigilantism? Value your characters life more. Only morons would catch a bullet and or a knife over their phone; there's a reason the advice for muggings is to comply and just give your shit over. It's also fun RP, sometimes I'll walk around at night waiting to get robbed. Funny how I've only been mugged once on this server though. 🤨🤔🧐

 

Same goes for the reverse; criminals take your time with your crimes. Wait until you find someone in a favorable position, the RP quality improves when you feel you don't have to rush your emotes or you're going to be exposed to a CCW assassin who values their friends iPhone 3 over their own life.

 

There is no "legal" or "illegal" archetype. There is people. People sometimes commit crimes, even those who are "legally inclined" separating people on this server into an APB Reloaded mindset is redundant.

 

The server would be boring if it was 100% "legal" and it would still be boring if it was 100% "illegal."

 

[Triple Seven]

Just now, HaveADream said:

We haven't commented because we weren't included on the actual discussion. We can't rule on something other admins have already done so but we have noted the concerns raised in this topic and will raise queries privately.

That’s great. I would however urge LFM and IFM to hold each other accountable for not including one another in these sorts of decisions in the future.

[Smilesville]

8 minutes ago, Doosty said:

We're far from perfect, so if there's something specific we can help with, please reach out. Otherwise, I assure you we're working diligently to try to make the server enjoyable for everybody.

Pushing back on the new standards mentioned in the first post would be great - and may already be happening behind the scenes, but most of us aren't privy to that.

 

I can't remember the last time I heard about a concerted effort from LFM to propose policies that would reduce the unrealistic rate and increase the quality of robberies.

 

I'd presumed this was because robberies were made the purview of IFM - but if that's within the ability of LFM to address, would they make a specific commitment to doing so?

[Triple Seven]

2 minutes ago, sio said:

stop playing the server with an us vs them mentality, you want to justify high-crime rates as an excuse for vigilantism? Value your characters life more. Only morons would catch a bullet and or a knife over their phone; there's a reason the advice for muggings is to comply and just give your shit over. It's also fun RP, sometimes I'll walk around at night waiting to get robbed. Funny how I've only been mugged once on this server though. 🤨🤔🧐

 

Same goes for the reverse; criminals take your time with your crimes. Wait until you find someone in a favorable position, the RP quality improves when you feel you don't have to rush your emotes or you're going to be exposed to a CCW assassin who values their friends iPhone 3 over their own life.

 

There is no "legal" or "illegal" archetype. There is people. People sometimes commit crimes, even those who are "legally inclined" separating people on this server into an APB Reloaded mindset is redundant.

 

The server would be boring if it was 100% "legal" and it would still be boring if it was 100% "illegal."

 

I believe you just summed up what people’s concerns are. Rushed bad roleplay apthat takes place in badly chosen locations. There is no us vs them for me, apart from maybe the us vs them when it comes to people who try and people who don’t. I for one don’t care if someone role plays legal, illegal, both or hybrid.

[DasFroggy]

1 minute ago, sio said:

Only morons would catch a bullet and or a knife over their phone; there's a reason the advice for muggings is to comply and just give your shit over.

As mentioned previously, complying has resulted in being hospitalized. Compliance is in no way a guarantee of any sort that near fatal injury will not be visited upon a character. The only difference now is that it can happen within line of sight of police precincts without ramifications.

 

3 minutes ago, sio said:

It's also fun RP

Getting sent to the hospital multiple times in a month is not fun RP.

 

3 minutes ago, sio said:

The server would be boring if it was 100% "legal" and it would still be boring if it was 100% "illegal."

We're not asking for 100% legal. I literally have a criminal character, who partakes in a pretty serious crime of helping criminals bypass police and security measures, because it also bypasses the need for guns more often than not. As a criminal roleplayer, I enjoy criminal roleplay, but the current amount of criminal activity is in excess, veering steadily, albeit slowly towards 100% illegal. There are people literally in this very discussion saying that this is GTA first, realism second.

[Engelbert]

11 minutes ago, sio said:

 

 

There is no "legal" or "illegal" archetype. There is people. People sometimes commit crimes, even those who are "legally inclined" separating people on this server into an APB Reloaded mindset is redundant.

 

 

I had to pick this line up. I actually managed to roleplay on APB, there was a larger group roleplaying through missions.

[Bospy]

Crimes in public places generally fall under the purview of illegal faction management. Regulation of these crimes is our purview as well.

 

Both continuity and illegal faction management generally agree that unless listed as a safezone, it can safely be assumed that committing crime in a public area is permissible beyond rules stipulating otherwise. Reckless activity, such as lack of fear, can be defined as powergaming, but is heavily contextual. Robbing someone in front of police officers, for instance, could be punishable. Attempting to stick up a large crowd gathered in front of a club could easily be punishable. So long as the crime could reasonably occur in real life in Los Angeles, we will allow it to occur here.

 

If you are on a public street during daylight and someone sticks you up, assume the street is empty while the stickup is occurring. If there are people on the street, let them call 911. If they aren't calling 911, then that's an IC issue. 

 

Somewhere being public is not an excuse to forbid crime from occurring. Crimes occur every day in public places. Crime is fundamentally something done when the opportunity presents itself. Crime doesn't need to be conducted by criminal masterminds. Most criminals are below average intelligence. It would be unnecessarily onerous to force every criminal to mastermind schemes to commit simple thefts when their excuse for committing crime could be as simple as fueling an addiction. We cannot force players to roleplay non-existent entities restricting their fundamentally rule-abiding activities. This is immersion breaking. Imagine if we didn't have our canine script in place - would we force players to roleplay a canine chasing them down if a cop typed it in /do? Unrealistic chain robbers can be punished. 

 

Report players who are robbing people unrealistically.

 

Looting rules are in place to prevent shootouts from devolving into Red Dead Redemption 2 or Escape from Tarkov. 

 

While one may argue that these kinds of decisions impact their ability to roleplay, you should seek IC recourse - charter your local government, demand increased patrol presence, hire security. Illegal characters should not be restricted from conducting robberies if they do so realistically. Geography does not limit the commission of crime, but what does limit the commission of crime is the presence of security and the increase of risk to a criminal. If a criminal perceives that the risk of robbing a target is too high, then they will not conduct a robbery.

 

Unfortunately, civilians do not get to pick and choose when they are allowed to be victimized in real life, so this is reflected in-game just as well.

 

This is the official position of IFM and changing from this position would result in a drastic reduction in criminal roleplay and have an unnecessarily unfair impact on limiting criminal roleplay and police roleplay. This would result in a knock-on effect of less interesting scenarios for police roleplayers, and as a result ruin two very important facets to our server. This position will not be changed.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Bospy