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Official standing about IC population portrayal - Thoughts?


HeyMambo

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1 minute ago, SimonX6 said:

the criminal has to OOCly agree to the footage being used, to which they can simply say no.

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[...]in the absence of OOC recording, players are able to challenge CCTV footage if they believe the recording party may have forgotten or falsified details.

This has been changed when rules surrounding CCTV regulations changed. However, CCTV is virtually nonexistant either way. This is mainly due to the fact that neither victim, nor suspect bother providing any details surrounding the crime. As said earlier, the usual Homicide crime scene you come across is body and eventually casings. No witnesses, the victim logged off 2 minutes after their death and nothing to be investigated / no one to inquire about what happened. All you have is the typical "body and casings" scenario leading nowhere.

 

And even if you were provided what could be seen on any potential CCTV, I have had it too many times that CCTV is challenged in any other way possible - position and angle of the camera, the fact no cameras are actually mapped into government owned properties, etc.

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Honestly most gang roleplayers, even if they roleplay being dumb as dookie, will not harm you in any way (physically or financially, or both) in the middle of the street. People who do that are outcasts who got denied from a faction or two and perhaps formed up some sort of a circle jerk... or just shit roleplayers.

If factions don't want them, they go on their power trips and rob random ass people in random ass places. If that happens, then report them because I bet my left nut you don't want them too, and nor do I. Nobody wants these people on this server not only because of portrayal issues but also because they're usually shit roleplayers. Just report any instance where a piss poor robbery is being performed, this issue really isn't as big as people make it seem. If you see a faction constantly make trips from Davis to the beach to rob people then report the whole faction too. The best thread we had in General Discussions was the PSA - Just Report one.

I am gonna say right now that I don't agree with the place of a crime (robbery, murder or whatever) being whatever, because people are gonna use the "my character is really fucking dumb bro he 15 he dont care if he rob a fool in the middle of the street" excuse just so they can shank someone, loot their body and then go rp some 150IQ gangbanger back on their turf.

With that said, I will still report any instances of idiots trying to rob me in the middle of what would be a populated area. I don't care for the time because timezones exist, but the place? Yeah, I am not going to play on a server where outcasts who aren't wanted by most factions can have their power trips and make the middle of Los Santos look like it's a Brazilian favela.

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23 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Venice Beach (irl counterpart of Vespucci) is literally a fucking shithole, the crime rates are through the roof there. Please do your research first, then speak.

Not all crimes are the same though. Homeless people fighting, people stealing bikes or gangs being loud and beefing with strangers isn't the same as what we see in terms of crime in the server. You can argue that a place like Legion Square is also a high-crime area IRL because there's f.e. tons of pickpockets and general petty criminals at large squares like that. The difference is that Vespucci has on your average night easily double rate of murders of Venice in a year.

 

image.png.98b46543076188fd82f2421c63d07eb6.png

https://homicide.latimes.com/neighborhood/venice/year/all

 

Obviously this is a game and crime rate is never going to be real, and everything is heightened, but as much of a shithole as Venice may be in certain areas IRL, Vespucci is a lot worse. Don't get me wrong though, I get where you're coming from, and I don't think Vespucci should be completely safe, but I think there's a compromise between expecting no crime and having people constantly camp out Del Perro Pier four deep all masked up and robbing you in the middle of the Pier (or having the decency of asking you to go in the "alley", meaning the busy as hell fair full of rides and stalls).

Edited by Koko
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4 minutes ago, Koko said:

Not all crimes are the same though. Homeless people fighting, people stealing bikes or gangs being loud and beefing with strangers isn't the same as what we see in terms of crime in the server. You can argue that a place like Legion Square is also a high-crime area IRL because there's f.e. tons of pickpockets and general petty criminals at large squares like that. The difference is that Vespucci has on your average night the rate of murders of Venice in a year.

 

image.png.98b46543076188fd82f2421c63d07eb6.png

https://homicide.latimes.com/neighborhood/venice/year/all

 

Obviously this is a game and crime rate is never going to be real, and everything is heightened, but as much of a shithole as Venice may be in certain areas IRL, Vespucci is a lot worse. Don't get me wrong though, I get where you're coming from, and I don't think Vespucci should be completely safe, but I think there's a compromise between expecting no crime and having people constantly camp out Del Perro Pier four deep all masked up and robbing you in the middle of the Pier (or having the decency of asking you to go in the "alley", meaning the busy as hell fair full of rides and stalls).

b04df13918f3f3e8a0348a91d029f075.png
𝗡𝗲𝘄𝘀: Locals are now referring to Venice Beach as "Skid Row West" after a recent spark in homelessness at the beach during this current COVID-19 pandemic.
dc973abfe55a56d96228b73ee9311200.png

 

Spoiler

People carrying guns and shooting at the mainwalk;
9c07adcc4db634c8ae3cf68812fea6e3.png91a035f2a8a2e4596d23ef99f3469aba.png76e313a5dd0c64272c2f71aba06f7ed6.png


And also keep in mind that homicide rate doesn't really represent the crime rate itself.

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1 minute ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

b04df13918f3f3e8a0348a91d029f075.png
𝗡𝗲𝘄𝘀: Locals are now referring to Venice Beach as "Skid Row West" after a recent spark in homelessness at the beach during this current COVID-19 pandemic.
dc973abfe55a56d96228b73ee9311200.png

 

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People carrying guns and shooting at the mainwalk;
9c07adcc4db634c8ae3cf68812fea6e3.png91a035f2a8a2e4596d23ef99f3469aba.png76e313a5dd0c64272c2f71aba06f7ed6.png


And also keep in mind that homicide rate doesn't really represent the crime rate itself.

Not denying anything included in your post but I don't see how it relates to my argument. Calling Venice "Skid Row" due to homeless people using drugs and loitering around engaging in crime, or showing footage of a gun being fired is not a reflection of what crime in the Vespucci area looks like IG, it's not a fair comparison, and I never said I disagreed with crime existing in Vespucci.

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13 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

b04df13918f3f3e8a0348a91d029f075.png
𝗡𝗲𝘄𝘀: Locals are now referring to Venice Beach as "Skid Row West" after a recent spark in homelessness at the beach during this current COVID-19 pandemic.
dc973abfe55a56d96228b73ee9311200.png

 

  Hide contents

People carrying guns and shooting at the mainwalk;
9c07adcc4db634c8ae3cf68812fea6e3.png91a035f2a8a2e4596d23ef99f3469aba.png76e313a5dd0c64272c2f71aba06f7ed6.png


And also keep in mind that homicide rate doesn't really represent the crime rate itself.


While all that sounds like a good argument, we can't compare apples with oranges. The point isn't about the number of crimes in absolute terms, but about the percentage of total population indulging into criminal activities of such kind.
Someone posted a link above, which showed 88 people were killed in Venice since 2000. That's 21 years.
Even if there are many drug peddlers and people frequently brandishing firearms at Venice, its a very small minority considering its total population density of more than 15000/sqmi. I bet not more than 15/sqmi of those would be criminals who would brandish firearms there, let alone robbing people at gun-point. That's a 1 in 1000 chance of coming across criminals at Vespucci's IRL equivalent. 
Now compare it to the IC population of 1000 even at peak hours? If you really wanna equate it to Venice, Vespucci shouldn't have more than 1 criminal even during peak hours. 

Ironically, my argument only stands valid if we were to RP as if IC population is the entire population, and RPing NPCs around is considered Powergaming

Edited by The.Godfather
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Near enough everything that I had said prior (except for the one that I prefaced as being my opinion) has been what the staff team's current perspective is. There is a staff meeting tonight and I will forward this topic along with what my own personal thoughts are on the matter are.

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5 minutes ago, The.Godfather said:


While all that sounds like a good argument, we can't compare apples with oranges. The point isn't about the number of crimes in absolute terms, but about the percentage of total population indulging into criminal activities of such kind.
Someone posted a link above, which showed 88 people were killed in Venice since 2000. That's 21 years.
Even if there are many drug peddlers and people frequently brandishing firearms at Venice, its a very small minority considering its total population density of more than 15000/sqmi. I bet not more than 15/sqmi of those would be criminals who would brandish firearms there, let alone robbiing people at gun-point. That's a 1 in 1000 chance of coming across criminals at Vespucci's IRL equivalent. 
Now compare it to the IC population of 1000 even at peak hours? If you really wanna equate it to Venice, Vespucci shouldn't have more than 1 criminal even during peak hours. 

Maybe because people want to rp criminals or characters who are at very least involved in illicit activities instead of rping regular people that work 9-5s. I think that this should be rather addressed in an IC manner since it would be an IC solution to an IC problem. People who say that Vespucci's crime rates are too high are simply wrong.

Edited by i dont wanna od in LA
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44 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Venice Beach (irl counterpart of Vespucci) is literally a fucking shithole, the crime rates are through the roof there. Please do your research first, then speak.

Oh believe me I have gone through this with many people multiple times. Having people doing drugs and people being robbed is a lot different to people being killed like its nothing and people treating the beach as being an empty racetrack.

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