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How do you RP the economy?


Busch

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15 minutes ago, ScottieP said:

 

Here are the current problems.

Possible solutions, unpleasant at this point for the community but at least a possibility and of course it is easier said than done, this is very complex.

 

 

And I also get where this is coming from.

 

And now let's add this to it:

An ice cream shop owner makes $40,000 every 48 hours which accounts to up to $600,000 per month + $4,000 the hour because he works there too and this is quite a bit of money.. in the meantime there are pawnshops that sell knuckle dusters/switchblades and all hells and heavens making up to $2,000,000 a month. 

 

In the meantime my character owns a productions house and is organizing massive events(e.g. Spring Break Festival) and while that ticket has to cost $5,000 because there is no support from either LSGOV or LFM it still does not bring me more than up to about $100,000-$200,000 after an event which happens only once in two or three months so we don't overdo it and that is without counting that I should pay the management team equally( keep in mind this money is after everyone else gets paid) that in fact should be helping me out and while most of the people helping out don't wanna take money it makes no sense that we are getting such a low amount in comparison to what organizers IRL get. Now I know I shouldn't be comparing it to IRL but this is very demotivating because when I bring up the concept to LFM they say "Have you tried other means?" or "Don't pay your DJ's this amount" and I understand that but at the same time I can't be asking for a sponsorship from 20 business for the 10th time this year from $50,000 to $100,000 when it brings nothing to them and most of these guys are close friends that also contributed to the events anyways(I would add here that most of them won't even try to pay more than $20,000 because of obvious reasons). We have also tried to invest our own money and we still are but that does only hurt our assets and make it even more difficult to roleplay the style our characters have. You can't tell me that I should pay $100,000 every month to drive specific vehicles and rent a house, pay for entrances and so on and on top of that invest in something to happen and then only recover like 1/3 of the money, in the long run my character will go bankrupt which will make no sense at all.(Of course, most people will say "Take it IC" and if it doesn't work then just leave it be.. well yeah but GL having no events then, we are doing this for the community and not for ourselves. We don't party at the events but we are running around and trying to keep everything going.)

 

Which should explain my point that unique roleplay is being cut in order to make the usual stuff that always work like running a club, running some kind of business or go for the criminal side. Even bartenders are making more money than my character so to say, they are having no costs at all to be at a club.. which is at least 50% of their play time and they even get paid for it and tipped and this all again makes no sense at all. 

 

LFM on the other side says: You can apply for funds yeah BUT you need to persuade us that we should pay you that amount and how should you persuade someone if they are not willing to take the facts into account, they say "Yeah we saw you did this festival but you did this once or twice  we don't know who your character is or what/how your character got into this place, who is he even?". It always brings a smile on my face because yeah I don't have a thread, yeah I don't have time nor do I want to go and cut pictures left and right but I am there IC and people know my character, I don't feel like I need to explain myself for something I can just drop(I already invest enough time in trying to gather people together and trying to make things happen ICly). As mentioned before a big concept is lost and the worst part is that they don't even care, eventually someone will pick it up and have another source of income which will be unrealistic(What I mean with this is, yeah I can go and open up a pawnshop IF I get one and I will be making $500,000 - $2,000,000 per month which will be double, triple or more than enough) and will get accepted for it anyways. 

 

And this is the very exact thing why most of the legal roleplay side is giving up. I totally understand where @Busch is coming from and why he has his concerns.

This. I've always though that money shouldnt be given directly to players, but to roleplay creators who would then give the money to player as wages. Those RP being realistic but not profitable in game wise.

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11 minutes ago, Lurleen said:

This. I've always though that money shouldnt be given directly to players, but to roleplay creators who would then give the money to player as wages. Those RP being realistic but not profitable in game wise.

That is indeed what is happening with the LFM funds, the owner of a faction or business is getting a specific amount of money which he then redistributes on IC basis.

 

For example these guys at ULSA set up a cryptocurrency mining builds and they are getting specific amount of money from the management as passive income accounted for what they have in their basement but these scenes mostly come in factions or businesses where mostly admins are involved that can control it or LFM anyways but the point is that if you are stranger to them you are not getting anything and it sucks. 

 

And we can't count PM away from this, they work similarly as LFM and they are in charge of the properties that can make or break you.

Luckily enough for us we got in touch with the right admin and really props to him he was backing us up from the beginning and we showed that we can make it but still without LFM we can't go for too long unless we wanna risk it and start being unrealistic.

 

Edit: I think it's important to make that unrealistic bold here. With unrealistic I mean the following: My character should have some sort of income to support his roleplay and so I could start doing bartending, security, opening a garage, opening a pawn shop start doing whatever money gives me, hell I started even joining poker games to gain money. Playing poker, you can do that as a hobby but you can't be CEO of something and go do bartending job or start selling keychains on the other side of the map.

Edited by ScottieP
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17 hours ago, Smilesville said:

I don't. More accurately, you can't.

 

Mechanical cash undermines the stated purpose of the server - but without it, there's no sense of progression and all we're left with are the stories that are created. (See also: GTAW is a MMO and not HRP.)

 

The transfer rates really don't match up no matter which two sources you pick.

  • A gun that costs $500 in real life shoots to $15,000 in the best of circumstances in game, so $10 RL is $300 GTAW?
  • Apartments in the city routinely cost upwards of $150,000 in real life, but only $35,000 in game, so $35 RL is $7 GTAW?
  • The Vapid Blade (1968 Chevy Impala in perfect condition) is worth $28,000 - $82,500 IRL, and $62,400 IG. So $1 RL is $1 GTAW?
  • Bartending in Los Angeles nets you about $16/hr on average, +$200 in tips per night. In GTAW, it's $2-4k. So $1 RL is $6 GTAW?

Anyone who tells you it's not a mess or has an exact exchange rate isn't looking at the whole picture. Anyone telling you to ignore it also doesn't RP the economy, else they have to explain why nearly every sports car owner is functionally unemployed.

 

It's a mess.

It's also a game dude. I think of it more as an MMO economy then trying to senselessly compare it to real life.

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I don't know who gets paid $400 an hour for working the till at a convenience store in real life, but I'll take that job any day.

The economy works on a few different levels:
- Real-Estate.

- Vehicle Market.
- Illegal Trades.
- Ect.

All of these are valued differently based on supply and demand. A gun is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Drugs have very little demand, so the price fluctuates accordingly. Property prices depends on the neighborhood; their limited supply and high demand keeps prices high. Vehicles have no limit of supply, and so their price remains relatively tethered to the dealership prices.

There is no one size fits all conversion that makes sense for all faucets of the market, so why try and impose one. Theoretically - if the offical statement was correct; that the conversion is $10 IC = $1 OOC - they could easily dial everything back to being $1 = $1. They can't, because the conversion isn't correct.

So how do we roleplay wealth? The answer is, however you feel. Everyone earns $200,000 as starting cash. I've seen cops and firemen wrack up millions in the bank because after a couple cars and an apartment, you run out of things to spend your paychecks on. It's perfectly fine to ignore the number in the corner and roleplay the character you feel like roleplaying because...

There's no bills to pay. No one pays for mortages, water, electricity, groceries. There's theretically no cost of living. On top of that, every player makes a passive hourly income that offsets the actual bills like transporation and insurence.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the administration should force players to pay bills, that would turn into a grind. What I'm saying is there's no point in relating the game's economy to real life when they function on entirely different principles.

TL:DR It's a video game, roleplay whatever makes sense to your character.

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22 hours ago, BINGBONGGHOST said:

You're not wrong and I agree with your point but try explaining that to an admin who combs through your asset worth without context in an attempt to seek punishement.

These usually focus on assets such as vehicles and properties instead of money.

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On 5/8/2021 at 4:17 PM, knppel said:

Money is to be kept ic.

People who don't rp their money while telling themselves they do it to be "realistic" are, pardon my french, fucking up the system.

They keep it back as an ooc resource to use when convenient, but refuse to do what irl established, wealthy members of the society do (regardless if legal or illegal for that part), re-invest their money and thus create a trinkle-down effect where poorer people looking for work can profit from other people's wealth.

 

At the same time their piled up money is still on the server, and they themselves complain about it (while at the same time keeping it regardless instead to simply erase it and play poor without resources as you might always need it for a firearm or a car "to rp with", lmao).

This creates the illusion that the server is overflowed with money (when actually, as anyone rping every single dollar can tell you, it isn't- money in bank accounts that's never used nor even roleplayed to be there does not contribute shit to the server's economy, and creates no rp either).

 

 

 


This is one of my big problems with the server. On the one hand you're told to RP the jobs, to be IC all the time, to be active while RPing in the shop and on the other you're told that the money you own isn't IC. How does that work?

If I get say 1 million dollars working as a Cop/Guard/Taxi Driver/whatever and I use that money I start being called a mallrat/unrealistic for having a Ferrari as a working class man. Cool.

 

But how can you tell me money on the server is IC if that's the case? It's such a two faced lie/double standard.

 

So let me get this straight. OOC I have 1 million dollars, but IC I can't use it. OOC I can buy a Ferrari but I'll be faction kicked/reported if I do, even though I have that money.

 

IC I can't use the 1 million dollars BUT I CAN BE ROBBED for 1 million dollars even though I don't own that money.

 

The server really needs to make up its mind on whether money/payment is IC or OOC.

If money is OOC and you're expected to only have as much as your job should give you IC ( not OOC ) then everyone should start with a billion dollars on their character so we can choose what we're RPing from the start. If I want to RP a rich lawyer or whatever I shouldn't have to grind trucking for 1 month and then namechange so I can actually RP what I wanted to from the start.

Edited by arandomgamer
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26 minutes ago, arandomgamer said:

If I get say 1 million dollars working as a Cop/Guard/Taxi Driver/whatever and I use that money I start being called a mallrat/unrealistic for having a Ferrari as a working class man. Cool.

This is definitely an issue. My character comes from a background in which he was waiting tables and bartending, and he only made a jump into being a DJ because he knew the basics of it and took the plunge because his employer never asked for his experience.

 

... Now the other day he helped out a short-staffed local business with bartending and made around 30k between outrageous tips and his base pay. That's around double than what he makes on a good night of DJing, which is more highly regarded as a profession and is more labor intensive (and costs OOC money) if you're actually mixing.

 

When the server makes IC payments to you for IC services that shouldn't give you that much money IRL, it feels weird to have to punish yourself for an economy that simply works differently than it does in real life for "realism".

Edited by Koko
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1 minute ago, Koko said:

When the server makes IC payments to you for services that shouldn't give you that much money, it feels weird to have to punish yourself for an economy that simply walks differently than it does in real life for "realism".


Factions and Admins should outright not have the right to say " Yo you can't have that " when you clearly have it with money you made IC.

It's outright OOC favoritism to tell someone he can't use his ingame money.

Edited by arandomgamer
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20 minutes ago, Koko said:

This is definitely an issue. My character comes from a background in which he was waiting tables and bartending, and he only made a jump into being a DJ because he knew the basics of it and took the plunge because his employer never asked for his experience.

 

... Now the other day he helped out a short-staffed local business with bartending and made around 30k between outrageous tips and his base pay. That's around double than what he makes on a good night of DJing, which is more highly regarded as a profession and is more labor intensive (and costs OOC money) if you're actually mixing.

 

When the server makes IC payments to you for IC services that shouldn't give you that much money IRL, it feels weird to have to punish yourself for an economy that simply works differently than it does in real life for "realism".

Yeah I’ve always had an issue with that as well. They give you $500+ an hour and $200,000 starting cash, plus $4000 an hour for jobs with /startshift. You spend the time to earn money and then they tell you that money wouldn’t be realistic for your character to have. Then WHY did I get it in the first place? The incentive is to encourage role play, but then when I want to step outside of the box a little suddenly it’s OOC unrealistic even though I earned that money IC. This has never really made a lot of sense. If you don’t want people stockpiling all this cash, reduce the amount of cash that is injected into a player’s bank account and adjust market conditions accordingly. 

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