How do you RP the economy?

[knppel]

1 hour ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

server staff want (and even punish), players for poor wealth portrayal, yet the server setup is completely responsible for facilitating it.

This creates a hilarious metagame in the community where I'll be applauded in character for my classy car when it's a shitty old Peyote (because that is cheap and thus oh so realistic to have and thus should... be taken ic? Wait a second...), but people portraying american teenagers will hate on classic American fabricates like a Banshee as they're prohibited from using them ic despite being given the money.

Edited May 9, 2021 by knppel

[bncal]

21 hours ago, knppel said:

Money is to be kept ic.

People who don't rp their money while telling themselves they do it to be "realistic" are, pardon my french, fucking up the system.

They keep it back as an ooc resource to use when convenient, but refuse to do what irl established, wealthy members of the society do (regardless if legal or illegal for that part), re-invest their money and thus create a trinkle-down effect where poorer people looking for work can profit from other people's wealth.

 

 

 

 

You probably don't understand the mode you're playing on this server 🙂 You can have 1 million in your bank and roleplay half of it or rolepaly having nothing more than one thousand. You don't roleplay $800 every hour, because it's stupid. Money in roleplay are supposed to help you buying assets that help your character development. 

> my character is broke and needs a rusty car or a RV to roleplay
> i buy a rusty car or the rv or whatever
> i continue my development

this is a little example. So, you can think your money as ooc resource, but ic as well. 

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

4 minutes ago, bncal said:

You probably don't understand the mode you're playing on this server 🙂 You can have 1 million in your bank and roleplay half of it or rolepaly having nothing more than one thousand. You don't roleplay $800 every hour, because it's stupid. Money in roleplay are supposed to help you buying assets that help your character development. 

> my character is broke and needs a rusty car or a RV to roleplay
> i buy a rusty car or the rv or whatever
> i continue my development

this is a little example. So, you can think your money as ooc resource, but ic as well. 

You're not wrong and I agree with your point but try explaining that to an admin who combs through your asset worth without context in an attempt to seek punishement.

 

"The numbers on the corner of your screen don't dictate your RP" - until it does.

Edited May 9, 2021 by BINGBONGGHOST

[knppel]

3 minutes ago, bncal said:

You don't roleplay $800 every hour, because it's stupid

But you all take 300 more the hour than you have to by default because that is smart to gain more ooc resources?

4 minutes ago, bncal said:

You probably don't understand the mode you're playing on this server 🙂

 

[Koko]

As an amateur DJ I make quite a bit more money than I want for my character.  He comes from waiting tables and serving drinks, and is only now getting his start.

 

Even when serving drinks it's not rare to get a 5k tip from characters who like to flex wealth (and have nothing to spend it on) and thus I generally impose my limitations on his general economic status:

 

For every good night where he goes home with 20k, I assume that it all evens out in the long term and makes him have an above average income, but he's not regularly making 100k a week from spinning decks at the local club even if I get that money scriptwise.

 

Whether I RP that he has emergency expenses such as his shitty apartment's washing machine broke down or some unexpected expense happened, I just dont want to go from a nobody to rich in a month despite people literally throwing money at entertainers.

 

When I made the character, I took note of the money I had before namechanging and mentally subtract that money from my character's wallet.

 

I'll make more or less frivolous expenses too, but my character isn't mentally ready to flex a sports car yet due to who he is.

[bncal]

1 minute ago, knppel said:

But you all take 300 more the hour than you have to by default because that is smart to gain more ooc resources?

 

 

5 minutes ago, bncal said:

Money in roleplay are supposed to help you buying assets that help your character development. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, BINGBONGGHOST said:

You're not wrong and I agree with your point but try explaining that to an admin who combs through your asset worth without context in an attempt to seek punishement.

 

"The numbers on the corner of your screen don't dictate your RP" - until it does.

Probably the admin doesn't understand what roleplay is as well! 😄  sorry admins don't ban me ok
 

[knppel]

Dude if you don't get the irony in farming money from the server and developing your character around assets, I can't help you

[bncal]

ahh yess  🔥😳☝️

Edited May 9, 2021 by bncal

[Late]

I try not to overthink it, the prices are the prices and I just roll with it.

I make sure to try and price all of my services and products relative to the cost of other items. For example, if a beer costs $100, I will charge between $150-$400 for meals in the kebab shop.

Working on the assumption IRL a beer is $5, it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect to pay up to $20 for your food. 

[ScottieP]

 

3 hours ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

 

Hi, I'll respond to this because I think the implication you make that 'things are made interesting' by the economy could be no further from the truth and here are a few reasons why.

 

The current economy is not interesting

 

Mary Sue's

I believe the current economy does the exact opposite of promoting interesting characters. It promotes Mary Sue characters who own multiple supercars, live a lavish lifestyle and who's existence is revolved around moving from one nightclub to the next, having done very little, if anything to deserve it.

 

How is that in anyway interesting?  Why is it, every faction has rules around wealth that they constantly have to manage with their members because the current economy fails to do this?

 

It promotes a gameplay style universally disliked

Every player is given the funds and setup to be a 'mallrat'. This is a style of gameplay seemingly disliked by every civilian and illegal faction.

 

Yet the server economy promotes this style of RP by giving would be 'mallrats' everything they need to play this type of char from the moment they join the server.

 

Crime is made a hobby, not a necessity

The current economy makes almost every single criminal do crime out of hobby than necessity, which is entirely unlike RL. Most criminals resort to crime for reasons other than something to do because they're bored. 

 

By improving the economy, the reasons to do crime would be far more real.

 

Wealth Distribution

The current economy creates an inverted pyramid of wealth distribution and that's not a good place to be when at the same time, server staff want (and even punish), players for poor wealth portrayal, yet the server setup is completely responsible for facilitating it.

 

Improving the economy would reduce a large number of wealth portrayal issues and reduce the time staff and factions have to manage this.

 

 

What makes the server interesting are the factions, players and events who bring the far higher quality RP to the server in both civilian and criminal circles.

 

Simply put, the economy /should/ be managed far better. The server setup should help direct players in a better quality level of RP by having a more suitable economy system. If it was, it would help manage the above issues and create an environment that is actually interesting rather than bland.

 

 

 

Here are the current problems.

6 hours ago, Smilesville said:

The sheer scale and unavoidably unrealistic behavior of players makes this a difficult challenge - I suspect my solutions aren't in line with the server's preferences, though. Namely, I think we got into this mess by attempting to balance realism with attainability when we can really only feasibly select one of the two without a mess that encourages grinding.

 

Namely, the only solutions I see are:

• The more likely solution which is to focus on attainability - accepting and understanding the limitations of the game to make them work for us instead of against us. We would need a powerful lore reason for why the market is so out of whack - and why despite the crime rates, anyone would still choose to live in Los Santos. This would no doubt involve fake historical events and a swift departure from the idea that Los Santos is remotely like any other American city. This is honestly the route I'd always have liked to see the server take because it doesn't clap us in irons to the idea of trying to get to a 1:1 representation of Los Angeles that, let's be frank, we're never going to get to.
  
  Call it the "Los Santos Autonomous Zone" or chalk it up to shenanigans with federal legislation and the governor's policies in the state - that's not important (for this discussion, anyways.) What's important is that we don't simply say a quick mathematical function can solve the issue and instead build up lore to explain why things are the way they are, including potential reasons to remain in Los Santos.
  
  Done right, this could be a revival of creativity and allow concepts that were shunned in the past because, well, "such-and-such wouldn't happen in Los Angeles." It would free staff from making so many subjective, difficult judgments and allow them to step back and let players drive the server rather than having the server stagnate.
   
• Or we could focus on realism. There's really only two ways to achieve this, and neither of them are particularly pleasant. Wipe out all financial assets, set realistic prices and start again, or wipe out the concept of mechanical assets entirely. Any attempt to siphon wealth from the population to bring finances down to manageable levels just isn't going to work - for all the talk about realism, players will avoid seeing their own assets drain away like the plague if they can.
  
  I honestly don't think the server would survive a radical shift in this direction. Namely, the profit motive can encourage people to act in a way that makes the game more immersive, even if the individual's actions are not particularly realistic. Trucking is the prime example of that - for all the fussing staff does at individuals who can't find a new way to emote stacking a box every run they make, another player just sees a truck on a highway and is immersed because that's a familar, realistic sight. Without game assets, you've wiped out the player's motive to do that, and the server is less immersive as a result, even though you may have made the economy more realistic.
  
  We would have to radically change how we think about wealth, and instead consider purchasing power rather than absolute cash. Buying a donut wouldn't eat into your funds, but purchases with recurring costs (cars, real estate, etc etc) would. Working a job wouldn't increase your cash flow, but being hired for the job would. Many players talk about not wishing to get off their RL jobs, only to come to their IG one - and this would definitely ameliorate that. Robberies, trucking, club openings, and everything else would be much less about making money and more about the story behind them. There's definitely holes in this line of argument that would need plugging before the idea is ready for prime time.

Possible solutions, unpleasant at this point for the community but at least a possibility and of course it is easier said than done, this is very complex.

 

2 hours ago, BINGBONGGHOST said:

You're not wrong and I agree with your point but try explaining that to an admin who combs through your asset worth without context in an attempt to seek punishement.

 

"The numbers on the corner of your screen don't dictate your RP" - until it does.

 

And I also get where this is coming from.

 

And now let's add this to it:

An ice cream shop owner makes $40,000 every 48 hours which accounts to up to $600,000 per month + $4,000 the hour because he works there too and this is quite a bit of money.. in the meantime there are pawnshops that sell knuckle dusters/switchblades and all hells and heavens making up to $2,000,000 a month. 

 

In the meantime my character owns a productions house and is organizing massive events(e.g. Spring Break Festival) and while that ticket has to cost $5,000 because there is no support from either LSGOV or LFM it still does not bring me more than up to about $100,000-$200,000 after an event which happens only once in two or three months so we don't overdo it and that is without counting that I should pay the management team equally( keep in mind this money is after everyone else gets paid) that in fact should be helping me out and while most of the people helping out don't wanna take money it makes no sense that we are getting such a low amount in comparison to what organizers IRL get. Now I know I shouldn't be comparing it to IRL but this is very demotivating because when I bring up the concept to LFM they say "Have you tried other means?" or "Don't pay your DJ's this amount" and I understand that but at the same time I can't be asking for a sponsorship from 20 business for the 10th time this year from $50,000 to $100,000 when it brings nothing to them and most of these guys are close friends that also contributed to the events anyways(I would add here that most of them won't even try to pay more than $20,000 because of obvious reasons). We have also tried to invest our own money and we still are but that does only hurt our assets and make it even more difficult to roleplay the style our characters have. You can't tell me that I should pay $100,000 every month to drive specific vehicles and rent a house, pay for entrances and so on and on top of that invest in something to happen and then only recover like 1/3 of the money, in the long run my character will go bankrupt which will make no sense at all.(Of course, most people will say "Take it IC" and if it doesn't work then just leave it be.. well yeah but GL having no events then, we are doing this for the community and not for ourselves. We don't party at the events but we are running around and trying to keep everything going.)

 

Which should explain my point that unique roleplay is being cut in order to make the usual stuff that always work like running a club, running some kind of business or go for the criminal side. Even bartenders are making more money than my character so to say, they are having no costs at all to be at a club.. which is at least 50% of their play time and they even get paid for it and tipped and this all again makes no sense at all. 

 

LFM on the other side says: You can apply for funds yeah BUT you need to persuade us that we should pay you that amount and how should you persuade someone if they are not willing to take the facts into account, they say "Yeah we saw you did this festival but you did this once or twice  we don't know who your character is or what/how your character got into this place, who is he even?". It always brings a smile on my face because yeah I don't have a thread, yeah I don't have time nor do I want to go and cut pictures left and right but I am there IC and people know my character, I don't feel like I need to explain myself for something I can just drop(I already invest enough time in trying to gather people together and trying to make things happen ICly). As mentioned before a big concept is lost and the worst part is that they don't even care, eventually someone will pick it up and have another source of income which will be unrealistic(What I mean with this is, yeah I can go and open up a pawnshop IF I get one and I will be making $500,000 - $2,000,000 per month which will be double, triple or more than enough) and will get accepted for it anyways. 

 

And this is the very exact thing why most of the legal roleplay side is giving up. I totally understand where @Busch is coming from and why he has his concerns.