Save the property market

[cracked]

Prediction: I am going to get a-lot of hate/negativity on this thread. Note that a-lot of these people will be property hoarders who are profiting off the messed up state of the property market, who only see this server as a number's game. I'm convinced there's most likely staff members in that category, too. I'm just predicting alot of toxicity due to fear of losing properties. That's just based on how I think I myself would respond if I feared loosing a few hours of property rushing "work".

 

Come into this thread with a mindset of wanting to fix the problem, not just drag a half-effort comment about it into this thread.

 

One of the solutions in here is a rule suggestion, hence this goes in rule suggestion even though it's an over-all suggestion.

 

TLDR; The property market is in a weird and bad state. We should fix it.

 

This is a very simple suggestion, now hear me out. If you're gonna respond negatively to this, please take some screenshots of your UCP and show me how many properties you're hoarding, because at this point I don't trust any player. I recently willingly lost every property I had for my characters to the 14 day inactivity and I was fully OK with that. I didn't have time to sell them before going inactive, and I'm not about to log on every 14 days and hoard the properties, I'd rather they go back to the server market. However, it took me 2 days of being online on the UCP map, refreshing constantly and sitting by my computer for stretches of 12 hours a day to even get myself 1 stand-alone apartment for a reasonable price. Once I got said apartment, I willingly told admins to remove the temporary Jamestown Unit I owned for only 1 day, letting it back to the players. I am convinced some hoarder, got the apartment on one of his alts. This mentality needs to stop, because with all the new players we have coming in it seems to limit their ability to live in the areas they'd like to. (I'm not talking about mirror park or  Paleto here, since they have such limited amounts of properties.) but it shouldn't be so hard to get one of the hundreds of stand-alone or physical complex apartments we have on the map.

 

There are a few fixes I can think of.

Number one: 

Shorten the inactivity allowed for all players. Make platinum donators get 14 days of inactivity, and anyone else to have 7 days. We get new players constantly, and hogging onto a house or apartment or whatever for weeks because you "don't wanna loose money on it" or because "i might use it later" is selfish & stupid. It doesn't benefit roleplay , which is what we're here for. We're not here for "make money ooh ooh aah aah". What are we, 15?

 

And if one week seems short, allow players to request a leave of absence of up to a week, which enables them to go inactive for 14 days even without donator. Vacations, being sick or injured are a thing. And to compensate for that, there should be a little bit of leeway. But we probably don't have 50 players at the same time injured to the point of where they can't play, that's not what's messing up the property market. 

 

Number two: 

Make the rules extremely strict. Anyone found ABUSING the inactivity system, such as logging on once every 14 days just to keep their properties, should be given a swift choice to have all of their properties removed without reimbursement, or to be banned for a long time for their RPG mentality. They're basically the same stuff.

 

Number three:

A progressive property tax that can be taken a bit as an OOC tax aswell. One that spans across all your characters, to make sure players with 5 characters and 10 properties also feel the tax effects. 

 

It could be an unrelenting tax that makes it unfavorable to not be online so often. Let's say it's a tax that is taken from any character with a property every 24 hours. The tax could be something like 0.1% of the property's value (including MP&FP) .

If said player owns more than four properties, assumingly over 2 characters, it could be 0.2%.

And it could keep going like this, so that in order to own 10 properties with a combined value of 2.1 mil, you'd be paying 21,000$ every 24 hours. (1%) This ofcourse would be spread across the properties corresponding characters. Because, i doubt you can be active long enough per day on 5 different characters to make it worth having 2 properties on each. Also, isn't it very unrealistic to roleplay that you're a "property flipper" (which is already against the rules) on 5 different chars? Woah, are you self-inserting? Are you a property mogul irl?

 

NOTE: I've been greedy too. Before property rules existed in the way they do now, I probably had like 10 properties. I sold them when the rules got introduced. I realized my ways were wrong, and this was a long time ago. 

 

Please, respond with creative solutions, not hate because you fear loosing your properties. I'm not coming after you, greed is a natural part of a human's way of life. You're being greedy, and that's okay. We all make mistakes. Just don't flame up in anger here. Instead, respond with some creative solutions. 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by cracked

[Rhelli]

IMO, housing should be limited to 1 house/standalone per character. Buying a custom standalone just to sell all the furniture objects and then selling the empty apartment back to the market after 14 days should also be looked into. At that point, you're just destroying something that someone else worked on for hours or days, just so you can make a quick buck.

[eTaylor]

31 minutes ago, cracked said:

Prediction: I am going to get a-lot of hate/negativity on this thread. Note that a-lot of these people will be property hoarders who are profiting off the messed up state of the property market, who only see this server as a number's game. I'm convinced there's most likely staff members in that category, too. I'm just predicting alot of toxicity due to fear of losing properties. That's just based on how I think I myself would respond if I feared loosing a few hours of property rushing "work".

 

Come into this thread with a mindset of wanting to fix the problem, not just drag a half-effort comment about it into this thread.

 

One of the solutions in here is a rule suggestion, hence this goes in rule suggestion even though it's an over-all suggestion.

 

TLDR; The property market is in a weird and bad state. We should fix it.

 

This is a very simple suggestion, now hear me out. If you're gonna respond negatively to this, please take some screenshots of your UCP and show me how many properties you're hoarding, because at this point I don't trust any player. I recently willingly lost every property I had for my characters to the 14 day inactivity and I was fully OK with that. I didn't have time to sell them before going inactive, and I'm not about to log on every 14 days and hoard the properties, I'd rather they go back to the server market. However, it took me 2 days of being online on the UCP map, refreshing constantly and sitting by my computer for stretches of 12 hours a day to even get myself 1 stand-alone apartment for a reasonable price. Once I got said apartment, I willingly told admins to remove the temporary Jamestown Unit I owned for only 1 day, letting it back to the players. I am convinced some hoarder, got the apartment on one of his alts. This mentality needs to stop, because with all the new players we have coming in it seems to limit their ability to live in the areas they'd like to. (I'm not talking about mirror park or  Paleto here, since they have such limited amounts of properties.) but it shouldn't be so hard to get one of the hundreds of stand-alone or physical complex apartments we have on the map.

 

There are a few fixes I can think of.

Number one: 

Shorten the inactivity allowed for all players. Make platinum donators get 14 days of inactivity, and anyone else to have 7 days. We get new players constantly, and hogging onto a house or apartment or whatever for weeks because you "don't wanna loose money on it" or because "i might use it later" is selfish & stupid. It doesn't benefit roleplay , which is what we're here for. We're not here for "make money ooh ooh aah aah". What are we, 15?

 

And if one week seems short, allow players to request a leave of absence of up to a week, which enables them to go inactive for 14 days even without donator. Vacations, being sick or injured are a thing. And to compensate for that, there should be a little bit of leeway. But we probably don't have 50 players at the same time injured to the point of where they can't play, that's not what's messing up the property market. 

 

Number two: 

Make the rules extremely strict. Anyone found ABUSING the inactivity system, such as logging on once every 14 days just to keep their properties, should be given a swift choice to have all of their properties removed without reimbursement, or to be banned for a long time for their RPG mentality. They're basically the same stuff.

 

Number three:

A progressive property tax that can be taken a bit as an OOC tax aswell. One that spans across all your characters, to make sure players with 5 characters and 10 properties also feel the tax effects. 

 

It could be an unrelenting tax that makes it unfavorable to not be online so often. Let's say it's a tax that is taken from any character with a property every 24 hours. The tax could be something like 0.1% of the property's value (including MP&FP) .

If said player owns more than four properties, assumingly over 2 characters, it could be 0.2%.

And it could keep going like this, so that in order to own 10 properties with a combined value of 2.1 mil, you'd be paying 21,000$ every 24 hours. (1%) This ofcourse would be spread across the properties corresponding characters. Because, i doubt you can be active long enough per day on 5 different characters to make it worth having 2 properties on each. Also, isn't it very unrealistic to roleplay that you're a "property flipper" (which is already against the rules) on 5 different chars? Woah, are you self-inserting? Are you a property mogul irl?

 

NOTE: I've been greedy too. Before property rules existed in the way they do now, I probably had like 10 properties. I sold them when the rules got introduced. I realized my ways were wrong, and this was a long time ago. 

 

Please, respond with creative solutions, not hate because you fear loosing your properties. I'm not coming after you, greed is a natural part of a human's way of life. You're being greedy, and that's okay. We all make mistakes. Just don't flame up in anger here. Instead, respond with some creative solutions. 

 

 

Wait, your property gets stripped if you don’t log on for 2 weeks?

Edited May 7, 2021 by eTaylor

[Mahiko]

I agree with the majority of it minus the tax that says MP + FP. If I spend a lot of time and money to furnish my property up to my standard with detailing, I shouldn't be punished. MP is fine. Forget FP, cause then we're just going to end up with lousy interiors cause people wanna avoid taxation.

[For Ever]

8 hours ago, eTaylor said:

Wait, your property gets stripped if you don’t log on for 2 weeks?

Your property gets removed as a non-donator after a fourteen day inactivity. As a donator, the time is a bit more, like 3 weeks for gold and 4 for Plat, but it will be removed eventually.

 

 

And for the general topic, even if the individual has OOC things happening, why would we remove their property? They should return in some time and well, if it does get a bit too long, saying, if a individual hasn't even been IG more than twice a month in about three months, I recon we should remove the property. Have SET guidelines for it, ENABLE people to be away for 3 months but then removing the property. It's not going to be that hard to establish, we have a lot of encouraged property management members willing to most likely do those check-ups.

 

No tax, please. It's a little bit awkward settling more and more taxes to the point where server eats half of the money people produce. We have taxes on trucking, selling cars, everything. I am quite sure there is a tax for selling an apartment to an individual. Just no, they're not going to make anything better but more people mourn, just like when the UK was taxing America. 

 

9 hours ago, cracked said:

And if one week seems short, allow players to request a leave of absence of up to a week, which enables them to go inactive for 14 days even without donator. Vacations, being sick or injured are a thing. And to compensate for that, there should be a little bit of leeway. But we probably don't have 50 players at the same time injured to the point of where they can't play, that's not what's messing up the property market. 

 

I understand you yourself have let your apartments/spots be taken, but some of us worked very hard to obtain them. Sure, 5k a hour and boom, you are rich soon, but some older charaters DO NOT get this anymore. For us, the mechanic paycheck is like 700-800 ish. It'd take us, uh... Quick maths would say 100+ hours to afford an cheap apartment. It's not going to be benefit anyone, but will rather cause havoc in people. Does the country you live in take your apartment when you go on a two week-one month vacation or not? No. They do not. They either buy it back or have you sell it. There's no need to take it. In my complex alone, there's 3 apartments empty. ONE of them is for sale, of which two are currently just there as their owners are away. It just does not happen.

 

In general, the rules should stay as they are, but maybe implement a 3 month max inactivity time for the individuals who really really have to be away. A reason such as "Personal problems" is fine and should be applied to Property Management in this case.

[NickyW]

A wipe after seven days is an awful idea.

 

It's a video game, dude. We all can't sit ingame for 14 hours a day pretending it's our second life.

 

14 days is fine (honestly, it might even be a little short).

 

The problem with property hoarding has to do a lot more with people having too much money and not enough to do with it, then inactivity.

[eTaylor]

26 minutes ago, For Ever said:

Your property gets removed as a non-donator after a fourteen day inactivity. As a donator, the time is a bit more, like 3 weeks for gold and 4 for Plat, but it will be removed eventually.

 

 

And for the general topic, even if the individual has OOC things happening, why would we remove their property? They should return in some time and well, if it does get a bit too long, saying, if a individual hasn't even been IG more than twice a month in about three months, I recon we should remove the property. Have SET guidelines for it, ENABLE people to be away for 3 months but then removing the property. It's not going to be that hard to establish, we have a lot of encouraged property management members willing to most likely do those check-ups.

 

No tax, please. It's a little bit awkward settling more and more taxes to the point where server eats half of the money people produce. We have taxes on trucking, selling cars, everything. I am quite sure there is a tax for selling an apartment to an individual. Just no, they're not going to make anything better but more people mourn, just like when the UK was taxing America. 

 

 

I understand you yourself have let your apartments/spots be taken, but some of us worked very hard to obtain them. Sure, 5k a hour and boom, you are rich soon, but some older charaters DO NOT get this anymore. For us, the mechanic paycheck is like 700-800 ish. It'd take us, uh... Quick maths would say 100+ hours to afford an cheap apartment. It's not going to be benefit anyone, but will rather cause havoc in people. Does the country you live in take your apartment when you go on a two week-one month vacation or not? No. They do not. They either buy it back or have you sell it. There's no need to take it. In my complex alone, there's 3 apartments empty. ONE of them is for sale, of which two are currently just there as their owners are away. It just does not happen.

 

In general, the rules should stay as they are, but maybe implement a 3 month max inactivity time for the individuals who really really have to be away. A reason such as "Personal problems" is fine and should be applied to Property Management in this case.

Are you kidding me? Why would I be punished for having a job, 14 days is way too short. I didn’t even know that was a thing, I’m basically at risk of losing all of my stuff the second I have a deployment or training. Thats absolutely beautiful, invaluable to keep your people engaged! 👏🏻

[Sixty]

8 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

Are you kidding me? Why would I be punished for having a job, 14 days is way too short. I didn’t even know that was a thing, I’m basically at risk of losing all of my stuff the second I have a deployment or training. Thats absolutely beautiful, invaluable to keep your people engaged! 👏🏻

Then you send a message to PM, as it's been instructed plenty of times, that you will be on an extended leave. They won't take your house if you have reason for being gone for that long. It takes 5 minutes to send a PM. Its not that inconvenient.

 

"Players are able to contact a member of the Property Management team in order to protect their property against inactivity checks. The current inactivity timer is 14 days."

 

https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/17084-property-rules-regulations/

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Sixty

[eTaylor]

3 minutes ago, Sixty said:

Then you send a message to PM, as it's been instructed plenty of times, that you will be on an extended leave. They won't take your house if you have reason for being gone for that long. It takes 5 minutes to send a PM. Its not that inconvenient.

Yeah. The last time I asked PM to hold onto a property they immediately took it off my account and it was sold a day later and I was told that they couldn’t do anything for me. 

[Sixty]

9 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

Yeah. The last time I asked PM to hold onto a property they immediately took it off my account and it was sold a day later and I was told that they couldn’t do anything for me. 

Damn seriously? Lol well that's a shit situation.