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The State of Robbery RP: Low effort, High gains


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5 minutes ago, MCB666 said:

"Have a nice day", passive-aggressive so much lol?  I've read the post but honestly these threads bring nothing but "illegal" & "legal" rp forum battles.

Too many people got that us and them mentality. There's just as many dogshit RPers on Legal as there are Illegal. They just hide away more. And that's the root issue, rather than - robberies themselves. Only reason illegals get more hate, is because they can push into you and force you to interact. So you're sometimes forced to deal with the retards. Brings me back to my point about: Report, report, report. If you have issues, that is. Just make sure it's not in some salty-moment and that it has some basis. Take screenies of incidents, recordings, whatever.

 

People need to take a step back, me thinks (I'd like to say, I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, it's just a broad statement about some of the debates I see on topics like these).

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9 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

I've been talking about this and proposing changes since before you even knew what GTAW was, dude.

Congratulations, you've spent more than a year complaining about robberies.

 

9 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Here are just a few of the things I've suggested to ameliorate the problem we face:

I wouldn't be so irate about the robbery problem if the criminal weren't released four days later. I also wouldn't be so irate about them if they were properly roleplayed without the OOC harassment that often comes with them (/b showitems, quit stalling, etc etc.) One of my suggestions has already been forwarded, so we'll see how it impacts the server when it's implemented - maybe prison times alone solve the problem by discouraging the grindfest and leave it solely to those who can engage in them realistically - the incredibly desperate.

 

 

This is what discussions are for.

 

For one, I actually agree that robberies should have more deterrents, namely a longer prison sentence. I got arrested for armed robbery and I was surprised at how short the sentence was. I thought it was ridiculously short. HOWEVER, in the four days I was in prison? I did not experience any roleplay, granted I didn't log on that much but when I did, in pretty peak hours, there was nothing to do. So I can understand both POVs, I think increased prison sentences have to come at a time when we are happy with the activity in TTCF.

 

9 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

In-game, robbers harass players minding their own business. That's just a fact.

What do robbers do irl, do they harass their victims who know they're coming? No, they pick on targets who are none-the-wiser.

 

9 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

You have highly unrealistic expectations of what robbery proceeds in real life can accomplish if you believe they can pay rent, buy cars, and keep your family in a manner to which they are accustomed. That's not a realistic expectation. If your rivals are having the same issues you are, you're theoretically on even ground when it comes to gang conflicts - but again, your argument isn't about crafting a story in opposition to theirs, it's about getting mechanical weapons to get the W.

I don't believe a single robbery can pay rent, buy cars & keep my family happy. I never said this, nor did I imply it.

 

Please, I beg of you, don't make assumptions that I'm out to get the W when it comes to shooting. I'm strongly against this, and over my 5 years of roleplaying I have tried to strive for more roleplay and less shooting/DM/blockwipe montages. I know you don't know me, so you wouldn't know this, but don't put me under that light. With that being said, I can't roleplay a realistic gang member if I'm getting PKed out of every war because I don't have a weapon.

 

9 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Robberies do not provide development for the vast majority of characters engaging in them. "I experienced one good robbery, and/or I develop my character through robberies" is not an adequate response. The vast majority of them are shit, and over the several years this has been the case, I've seen not one suggestion from the illegal community to improve their quality.

Nobody is excusing subpar roleplay, nobody wants to experience subpar roleplay. You clearly haven't looked hard enough if you haven't seen a single suggestion from illegal roleplayers to improve the quality of robberies. I've given multiple suggestions in this thread alone, and it was made today.

 

9 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Robberies certainly do not do this. Especially two minute robberies where the only spoken line is "hands up fool."

The roleplay around the robbery is where the development comes from, the before and after. I don't want to have to keep bringing this word up, but you're generalising again. How long would you want a robbery to be? Three to five minutes is enough time for two groups of people to roleplay to a sufficient degree in a robbery in my opinion.

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Just like IRL robberies are often times sloppy and rushed, even on the server there's cops patrolling almost every area so illegal RPers have to move with a sense of urgency when doing these robberies, armed robbery is a four day charge plus the gun if the character is a felon that's another two days, so the robbers are facing 6 days in jail if they get caught during these robberies. As someone who has done a fair amount of robberies I usually try to look for people in spots that I know I will have enough time to fully RP the situation out without rushing it. However robberies IRL are usually a quick shake down and nothing more, a quick pat down of the pockets and a frisk of the waistline and you are on your way, on the server typing out the emotes, giving players time to respond, dealing with players not knowing how to give items takes a great amount of time. While you say that illegal RPers are only out for script items, the whole point of the robbery is for the character to profit from it, of course you are in it for the items/money that comes for it that's the whole point of these robberies, you can't sell a non existent item as that would be power gaming.  

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1 hour ago, Stiggz said:

If you don’t wanna be robbed tell staff to make it easier for illegal roleplayers to get firearms and money, until then you’re shit out of luck, and so are we. 

Go out IRL and tell us how easy it is to get an illegal firearm as an average joe criminal with no connections, we'll wait. 

 

Anyways, on topic. Almost all of my characters walk around all the time, all over the different areas of the server, one in Paleto/Chilliad, one in Rockford, and one in Davis. Not once have I been robbed on either of them. And I usually spend a good 4 hours walking around just exploring and shit. So, while yes, robberies are an issue, they're definitely not as BIG of an issue as this makes them out to be. But I definitely agree that they should be RPed better. 

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Just now, PeopleKind said:

Go out IRL and tell us how easy it is to get an illegal firearm as an average joe criminal with no connections, we'll wait. 

 

Anyways, on topic. Almost all of my characters walk around all the time, all over the different areas of the server, one in Paleto/Chilliad, one in Rockford, and one in Davis. Not once have I been robbed on either of them. And I usually spend a good 4 hours walking around just exploring and shit. So, while yes, robberies are an issue, they're definitely not as BIG of an issue as this makes them out to be. But I definitely agree that they should be RPed better. 

I can literally get a ghost gun in 5 minutes, it’s not hard at all.

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16 minutes ago, ChromaticDeath said:

Step number one to solving a problem is realizing the problem exists and being willing to discuss it, and for that, I thank you, very much.

 

Common courtesy to roleplay should be extended to the victim of the robbery, in the same right that the RP should go by quickly. I've had people /b and /pm me because I took thirty seconds to type an emote out. Thirty seconds. People have varying typing speeds, as sucky as that is, especially under duress, as most legal roleplayers simply aren't used to being rolled up on and having guns pointed at their characters. They're usually not in that same sphere, so they're not about it. That's why I said timescaling would help, if it could be done at all. It's what we did for years on a previous server I roleplayed on and allowed a little flexibility to promote actual good emotes and portrayal rather than 2 lines for searching and a lot of /s shut up and /s hands up. Roleplay has to balance with expediency and too many people are too willing to sacrifice the first to necessitate the second.

Honestly? I don't think the examples provided in the OP are poor roleplay, at least not all of them.

 

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These /me's are perfectly fine, they're descriptive of what they're doing/where they're searching & they don't force any roleplay.

Sure the PMs come off a bit aggressive, but this could easily be due to the momentum of the situation.

 

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I believe this is just a case of a poor choice of words. Again, the roleplay isn't poor other than the use of the word 'items'. 

 

This showcases another glaring issue with this entire topic. Who decides the standard of robbery roleplay? Naturally there will always be differing opinions of a standard of roleplay, sometimes bias, sometimes not. The easiest option is letting admins set the standard, but that comes with its drawbacks and it's not sustainable. It's honestly a difficult question to answer, especially with the 'us vs. them' that unfortunately plagues the server, even if you don't want it, it's there.

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53 minutes ago, ChromaticDeath said:

What a testament to the problem I outlined in my post. Toxicity. This is toxicity. You take someone bringing up a very valid point about the state of robbery, and twist it into "they are crying". Noone is crying here, dude. We shed no tears. We are just jaded with how these things are handled. You wonder why so many legal roleplayers vehemently hate criminal roleplay, as a whole? It's the sort of standoffish attitude displayed here.

Forgive me for being rude but what else do you expect from the Illegal community? We're constantly told we're the issue, we're the bad ones, we need to stop doing what we're doing yet we've made our stance very clear. Nobody prefers robberies, nobody prefers going after legal RPers but it's one of if not the only illegal activity on the server that even slightly gives a realistic reward. Drugs don't bring in money, illegal gambling doesn't bring in money, fraud rarely is achievable and basically every other illegal racket isn't monetizable, people only do it for the RP. Don't get me wrong, people should be doing thing for RP but let's be honest, the motive for crime is money and if there's only 1 or 2 ways to make money as a criminal on the server, people are going to choose to stick a gun in your face instead of pretending their making money selling drugs.

 

Illegal RPers are very, very clear on what they want and what they need to progress past the constant robberies your seeing. Fix the gun and drug economies so players aren't robbing people just for guns and can actually make money dealing drugs without being a bulk seller. It's really that simple, your not going to see an end to robberies but I assure you the vast majority of people will choose to put their efforts somewhere else. 

 

Until that point people can bitch and moan about robberies/murder rates and extortion as much as they want. I understand why people are doing it and I don't blame them either. If legal RPers genuinely wanted to see this fixed and didn't just want to spit on illegal RPers you'd be sharing our concern for the lack of server development focused on illegal RP because all of us have been screaming about it for the past year. Doesn't take that much brain power to connect the dots guys.

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1 minute ago, EffPee said:

The roleplay around the robbery is where the development comes from, the before and after. I don't want to have to keep bringing this word up, but you're generalising again. How long would you want a robbery to be? [...] What do robbers do irl, do they harass their victims who know they're coming? No, they pick on targets who are none-the-wiser.

I don't care how long a robbery is. If you can hash out a decent emote and avoid /b chat, I'm more or less a happy camper - I'm not asking for a Shakespearean soliloquy or anyone to go out of their way to expose themselves. My bar isn't high, but the vast majority of robberies routinely underperform, and they're far too common to boot.

 

3 minutes ago, EffPee said:

For one, I actually agree that robberies should have more deterrents, namely a longer prison sentence. I got arrested for armed robbery and I was surprised at how short the sentence was. I thought it was ridiculously short. HOWEVER, in the four days I was in prison? I did not experience any roleplay, granted I didn't log on that much but when I did, in pretty peak hours, there was nothing to do. So I can understand both POVs, I think increased prison sentences have to come at a time when we are happy with the activity in TTCF.

I've been a bit divided on that myself - I had a grand total of three people to RP with in TTCF. One of them wasn't of my ethnicity, so social mixing would be a bit awkward, and another took his shirt off and went table to table trying to steal our dinner rolls. The third was the deputy. Woke up the next morning and my character's weapons possession sentence had been served.

 

Part of me thinks with a greater number of individuals in jail, there will naturally be more to do. Nonetheless. part of the suggestion thread I linked was devoted to turning TTCF into its own mini-server style of establishment (with an economy of its own, prison jobs, more opportunities for smuggling, etc) which is really the way to go in my opinion.

 

6 minutes ago, EffPee said:

Please, I beg of you, don't make assumptions that I'm out to get the W when it comes to shooting. I'm strongly against this, and over my 5 years of roleplaying I have tried to strive for more roleplay and less shooting/DM/blockwipe montages. I know you don't know me, so you wouldn't know this, but don't put me under that light.

I have no reason to believe this isn't true - if you go through the thread I linked with regards to prison sentencing, though, there was a veritable shitstorm coming from well established illegal players under the justification that people will simply log off for their sentences. I just cannot, for the life of me, explain why illegal players wouldn't want the opportunity to network and give TTCF the love it desperately needs at the same time.

 

Much like the server needs more than 3-5 players to work well, so too does TTCF, but the arguments against the suggestion were almost universally from the illegal sphere and all smacked of self interest without acknowledging a problem even existed. When the conversation starts shifting toward mechanical assets, it begins to sound like those. On the other hand - you're right in that if mechanical assets weren't to be a consideration at all, why would they exist in the first place?

 

It's easy to get jaded about it when the problem has existed for as long as it has.

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4 minutes ago, Henning said:

Forgive me for being rude but what else do you expect from the Illegal community? We're constantly told we're the issue, we're the bad ones, we need to stop doing what we're doing yet we've made our stance very clear. Nobody prefers robberies, nobody prefers going after legal RPers but it's one of if not the only illegal activity on the server that even slightly gives a realistic reward. Drugs don't bring in money, illegal gambling doesn't bring in money, fraud rarely is achievable and basically every other illegal racket isn't monetizable, people only do it for the RP. Don't get me wrong, people should be doing thing for RP but let's be honest, the motive for crime is money and if there's only 1 or 2 ways to make money as a criminal on the server, people are going to choose to stick a gun in your face instead of pretending their making money selling drugs.

 

Illegal RPers are very, very clear on what they want and what they need to progress past the constant robberies your seeing. Fix the gun and drug economies so players aren't robbing people just for guns and can actually make money dealing drugs without being a bulk seller. It's really that simple, your not going to see an end to robberies but I assure you the vast majority of people will choose to put their efforts somewhere else. 

 

Until that point people can bitch and moan about robberies/murder rates and extortion as much as they want. I understand why people are doing it and I don't blame them either. If legal RPers genuinely wanted to see this fixed and didn't just want to spit on illegal RPers you'd be sharing our concern for the lack of server development focused on illegal RP because all of us have been screaming about it for the past year. Doesn't take that much brain power to connect the dots guys.

Damn, took the words right out of my mouth. No reactions left today but you would be getting one.

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