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How the server fails to encourage roleplay over money


TinPan

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I feel this is being overcomplicated. It all falls on the players mentality and how they abuse the system. It was made in this way so money wouldnt be a problem with players, as such they can choose what to roleplay having that financial freedom.

 

The problem falls on peoples failed idea of roleplay, they dont see roleplay as rewarding but rather the assets they accumulate and no system you guys come up with will change how people understand and play a roleplaying game since they need to change that mentality by themselves. 

 

Its a game afterall and overcomplicating it will deter players away from it in my opinion. Putting a restraining system like this on the admins is just off putting and will probably lead a lot of people away from the position.

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9 hours ago, Rasta said:

I feel this is being overcomplicated. It all falls on the players mentality and how they abuse the system. It was made in this way so money wouldnt be a problem with players, as such they can choose what to roleplay having that financial freedom.

 

The problem falls on peoples failed idea of roleplay, they dont see roleplay as rewarding but rather the assets they accumulate and no system you guys come up with will change how people understand and play a roleplaying game since they need to change that mentality by themselves. 

 

Its a game afterall and overcomplicating it will deter players away from it in my opinion. Putting a restraining system like this on the admins is just off putting and will probably lead a lot of people away from the position.

Viewing a game as progression is natural - and no matter how much money you throw at people, the market will always compensate. Put another way, do you think giving new players a $10m check upon joining the server would allow them to buy a house? Of course not, the price of housing would jump to compensate. The system didn't reduce scarcity, it just inflated the market. Increased demand (liquid cash) without a matching increase in supply (number of properties available) could only have ever had that one end point.

 

You can't eliminate the value of resources subject to scarcity - period.

 

Like I mentioned before, it is possible to attach objective value to roleplay. We can yell at the moon all we want and lament how terrible everyone is (except ourselves, of course) but nothing will change unless we revise the system to encourage the behavior we want.

 

If the thought of having play NPCs instead of their own character is enough to make some staff quit despite the ways in which it will help the server, well, I'm not exactly sad to see them go.

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1 hour ago, Smilesville said:

Viewing a game as progression is natural - and no matter how much money you throw at people, the market will always compensate. Put another way, do you think giving new players a $10m check upon joining the server would allow them to buy a house? Of course not, the price of housing would jump to compensate. The system didn't reduce scarcity, it just inflated the market. Increased demand (liquid cash) without a matching increase in supply (number of properties available) could only have ever had that one end point.

 

You can't eliminate the value of resources subject to scarcity - period.

 

Like I mentioned before, it is possible to attach objective value to roleplay. We can yell at the moon all we want and lament how terrible everyone is (except ourselves, of course) but nothing will change unless we revise the system to encourage the behavior we want.

 

If the thought of having play NPCs instead of their own character is enough to make some staff quit despite the ways in which it will help the server, well, I'm not exactly sad to see them go.

I respect your opinion and I do agree with the economy being a bust however I'm against systemizing roleplay in such a way where it's dependant on others rather than yourself to create and partake in roleplay. In regards to admins, my opinion will remain the same since I have been an admin and by personal experiance I would say I wouldn't partake in such things, I would play my characters to enjoy roleplaying and assist the community with administration. But hey, there could be staff positions which would be just that, an event creator per say.

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36 minutes ago, Rasta said:

I respect your opinion and I do agree with the economy being a bust however I'm against systemizing roleplay in such a way where it's dependant on others rather than yourself to create and partake in roleplay. In regards to admins, my opinion will remain the same since I have been an admin and by personal experiance I would say I wouldn't partake in such things, I would play my characters to enjoy roleplaying and assist the community with administration. But hey, there could be staff positions which would be just that, an event creator per say.

The system I've proposed is nothing but an upward trajectory from where we are now.

 

We already systemically encourage and discourage specific types of play - only the present model relies far more heavily on punishment as a deterrent, rather than providing an incentive to encourage. It would be a perfect world if everyone could self motivate, but surely you realize that isn't possible.

 

To be frank, the staff team is far too large, which is (again) why I wouldn't be sad to see some go if they're not fit for the new definition of administrating. Nearly every application is designed to ask the same question: "Can this person RP X concept properly?" This is much easier to accomplish by proactively gauging players. If they turn out not to be fit for a particular concept? Well, back to the previous rank they go. The system is designed to be dynamic in this regard.

 

Imagine a world in which we didn't have the majority of the staff team sorting through applications on any given day.

 

How many fewer would we need? Alternatively, how much more could they do in game with the time wasted on applications?

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13 hours ago, Rasta said:

I feel this is being overcomplicated. It all falls on the players mentality and how they abuse the system. It was made in this way so money wouldnt be a problem with players, as such they can choose what to roleplay having that financial freedom.

 

The problem falls on peoples failed idea of roleplay, they dont see roleplay as rewarding but rather the assets they accumulate and no system you guys come up with will change how people understand and play a roleplaying game since they need to change that mentality by themselves. 

 

Its a game afterall and overcomplicating it will deter players away from it in my opinion. Putting a restraining system like this on the admins is just off putting and will probably lead a lot of people away from the position.

for what it's worth i agree with your points here

 

i've seen at least five other servers fail since gtaw's launch mostly because they all wanted to do the opposite and make new players work hard for some money, it just doesn't work, especially for a new server competing with an established one

 

it's on the players themselves and there's not much that can be done about that without driving players away and afterwards still having no guarantee of it being effective, it's easy to say "quality over quantity" in regards to players but it's much better to take "incompatible" players as background players than completely deter them from playing

 

with it being a game server i've always made the argument that you don't always see characters in pieces of fiction working or doing not so interesting things in general, i treated the bonus money as money my character made from a job that they'd be doing while i was offline, and online time is "leisure" time

 

i do agree with the original thread though, this was also a complaint in 2018 and the best idea people came up with was removing entry fees completely to kill off heavily profit-based venues and encourage more that are made as hubs for roleplay activity, before fiverp died the biggest difference i noticed was no entry fees and fewer venues in general which made for more outdoor/street roleplay

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Don't really see a fix to the whole inflation going on. Only way would be to change the mindset of all the players who put assets > RP.

 

Or you could add some nasty taxing on everything. But then again that'd ruin roleplay for a lot of people who can't put in more than a few hours a day.

 

Guess one way to tax things would be to tax the total assets people sit on. Say just having a vehicle and an apartment worth below 250-300.000 wouldn't really get taxed. But once your assets crawl up towards the million(s) you'd get taxed much more. And potentially additional taxes if you decide to own more than one propety or more than one vehicle.

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43 minutes ago, paym4n said:

Don't really see a fix to the whole inflation going on. Only way would be to change the mindset of all the players who put assets > RP.

 

Or you could add some nasty taxing on everything. But then again that'd ruin roleplay for a lot of people who can't put in more than a few hours a day.

Thing is, basically everyone will claim to be that one that's actually here to rp and not for the assets, and refer to others who allegedly just farm robberies/faction paychecks/startshift/trucking/prostitution/insert your least favourite way to make money here.

Opinions just differ on what's actually contributing to the scenery as players naturally have differing demands for their characters.

 

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12 hours ago, paym4n said:

Or you could add some nasty taxing on everything. But then again that'd ruin roleplay for a lot of people who can't put in more than a few hours a day.

 

Guess one way to tax things would be to tax the total assets people sit on. Say just having a vehicle and an apartment worth below 250-300.000 wouldn't really get taxed. But once your assets crawl up towards the million(s) you'd get taxed much more. And potentially additional taxes if you decide to own more than one propety or more than one vehicle.

i don't know if it's still in the server but i thought the vehicle tax and other vehicle-related costs were added in 2018 to achieve this, where characters had to pay a running rate weekly or monthly that valued to around 10% of their vehicle value in order to curb the number of expensive vehicles on the streets

 

it only had ic consequences though so i can see why it probably didn't work out

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Money should be fairly fundamental to most role play in modern America.


The two are not mutually exclusive. Good role play is about the journey your char takes, not the end result & in the US, money plays a huge part of life.

 

In fact, good RP & money should be intrinsically linked if you are portraying your character well.

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Server needs more money sinks. Right now you get paid (with very little taken out for tax) and then just sits. In reality, people have various bills they have to pay. For example, in my real life I have to pay...

- Rent
- Utilities bills (water, electric, internet)
- Personal bills (phone service, discord, netflix, etc.)
- Insurance
- Debt (car payment, credit card)
- Gas for my car
- Groceries

I'd say I have a solid 30% of my paycheck left over after I pay my taxes and all my bills. Compare that to GTA:W where I get paid, and unless I'm renting a property, a solid 90% of my paycheck will be left over. The only way that money will get taken from you is if you get a speeding ticket or someone robs you. Income taxes need to increase, right now they are hilariously low. There needs to be a mechanism to pay for utilities (such as water and power) on properties. Right now, Aurum Energy is trying to get a power company up and running and has a voluntary option for people to pay power bills. It would be awesome if people had to automatically pay their power bills and it was some auto generated amount (like .025% of scripted property value + .005% for every hour spent in the interior). It would be nice if people actually had to eat so there would be an incentive to go buy food for your character (another money sink). There's many options on the table for getting extracting money from the server but its a matter of how badly people care to fix it. At this current rate, people get their hourly stimmy and that money just continues to get pumped into the system and it leads to hyperinflation.

 

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