Namechanging during an active loan

[Entity]

I have recently noticed that our rules prohibiting name changing during an active loan generates an unfair loophole that should be addressed. I believe that a small addition to the rule should be considered, defining what an active loan is and the circumstances (or time period after which) a name change is allowed. In its current state, loaning someone money freezes said character indefinitely, unless the money is paid back. This means that after giving a loan, whether a week passes or a year passes, the loan is still considered to be active. If the money is never returned (common practice in scams), said person can never change their characters' name. As a side note, this incentives people to completely abandon said characters which, in turn, makes any interaction with them impossible. Although I am not involved in such role-play, I do believe that it is unfair for characters running properly planned out and carried out scams.

 

A simple addition to the rule would fix this issue. A time limit should be added, just like we have in the case of active court cases.

1. If a deadline is set for the loan, the person can name change 2 weeks after the deadline. If no deadline is set, the person can name change two weeks after the money is transferred.
2. The character can be name changed only after two active weeks, thus preventing people from avoiding to log in. If they cannot log in at all, two weeks will be considered from the moment when they return. Activity can be defined as having 0.5 ABAS (30 minutes a day, 3.5 hours a week, 7 hours per two weeks).   

 

If someone wishes to take it to court, the rules surrounding name changing during active court cases will be applied. If they want to handle it on their own, two weeks is more than enough time to do so. If a CK app is submitted, we should be looking at two weeks after its conclusion (so two weeks in order to carry out the CK or, if denied, two weeks to confront the person ICly). More clarification is always welcomed.

[knppel]

As mentioned on the other thread, I am very sceptic to simply tweaking single numbers.

The reason behind this is that they'll not change the mindset of those people conducting scams on ooc base with namechanges and other non rp tools, it will simply make them adapt to these tiny changes in their behaviour (expect reports about people not logging in to let two weeks pass with this rules, for example).

 

Bit OT, but rather than a tweak to loan rules, there needs to be full restriction of nc's for characters engaging in them (ck permissions the other way: get permission from your loanshark to die), a ban on using ads for one-person-scham schemes, and staff seriously cracking down on players who lawyer around ooc rules when effectively trying to avoid rp.

Edited April 23, 2021 by knppel

[Entity]

1 minute ago, knppel said:

As mentioned on the other thread, I am very sceptic to simply tweaking single numbers.

The reason behind this is that they'll not change the mindset of those people conducting scams on ooc base with namechanges and other non rp tools, it will simply make them adapt to these tiny changes in their behaviour (expect reports about people not logging in to let two weeks pass with this rules, for example).

 

Bit OT, but rather than a tweak to loan rules, there needs to be full restriction of nc's for characters engaging in them (ck permissions the other way: get permission from your loanshark to die), a ban on using ads for one-person-scham schemes, and staff seriously cracking down on players who lawyer around ooc rules when effectively trying to avoid rp.

This suggestion is simply about clarifying what an active loan is, not about the quality of the role-play (which in most cases it is subpar) or OOC motivations. That's true, I agree, but that's a different issue.

 

As it currently stands, loaning money is done with zero risk. Even if you take 0 action or don't care at all, if the other person decides to name change after a year, you are entitled to your money because the loan was still active and they did name change. As it currently stands, loaning can have two outcomes: get your money back or wait a bit and get your money back. No risk.

 

Regarding people avoiding to log in for those two weeks, a solution is mentioned in the original topic - only being able to name change after two active weeks. 

[knppel]

4 minutes ago, Entity said:

Even if you take 0 action or don't care at all, if the other person decides to name change after a year, you are entitled to your money because the loan was still active and they did name change

Oh yeah that is a different matter indeed (and should alsobe canned, as it encourages people to not care about loans really, giving more leeway to those pulling off scam schemes).

 

What I think won't be too useful is clarification of what is when a loan- such will , depending on what the rules allow, only lead to people rule-lawyering about wether their money was/was not a loan (depending on wether a loan or a not-loan is more favourable for them by rules).

 

[Toihin816]

Quote

The character can be name changed only after two active weeks, thus preventing people from avoiding to log in. If they cannot log in at all, two weeks will be considered from the moment when they return. Activity can be defined as having 0.5 ABAS (30 minutes a day, 3.5 hours a week, 7 hours per two weeks).   

What's to stop this hero from logging in and AFKing somewhere unreachable?

[NickyW]

This isn’t a bug, or oversight, or loophole

 

its a feature 

 

the reason the no NC rule exists is to prevent people from doing exactly what you’re describing 

 

loans are a piss easy way to scam someone and are one of the only ways to scam people over the scam limit, so taking steps to limit their occurrence and adding risk to doing so (being forced to live with the consequences of your scam) is a solution to that issue 

[Sixty]

On 4/23/2021 at 6:45 AM, Entity said:

I have recently noticed that our rules prohibiting name changing during an active loan generates an unfair loophole that should be addressed. I believe that a small addition to the rule should be considered, defining what an active loan is and the circumstances (or time period after which) a name change is allowed. In its current state, loaning someone money freezes said character indefinitely, unless the money is paid back. This means that after giving a loan, whether a week passes or a year passes, the loan is still considered to be active. If the money is never returned (common practice in scams), said person can never change their characters' name. As a side note, this incentives people to completely abandon said characters which, in turn, makes any interaction with them impossible. Although I am not involved in such role-play, I do believe that it is unfair for characters running properly planned out and carried out scams.

 

A simple addition to the rule would fix this issue. A time limit should be added, just like we have in the case of active court cases.

1. If a deadline is set for the loan, the person can name change 2 weeks after the deadline. If no deadline is set, the person can name change two weeks after the money is transferred.
2. The character can be name changed only after two active weeks, thus preventing people from avoiding to log in. If they cannot log in at all, two weeks will be considered from the moment when they return. Activity can be defined as having 0.5 ABAS (30 minutes a day, 3.5 hours a week, 7 hours per two weeks).   

 

If someone wishes to take it to court, the rules surrounding name changing during active court cases will be applied. If they want to handle it on their own, two weeks is more than enough time to do so. If a CK app is submitted, we should be looking at two weeks after its conclusion (so two weeks in order to carry out the CK or, if denied, two weeks to confront the person ICly). More clarification is always welcomed.

First of all, loans almost never have an indefinite repayment schedule, so your entire basis of reasoning is incorrect. Usually when someone is given a loan, it's understood to to be paid back in equal installments until the loan is repaid as defined by the loan contract. If someone misses a payment, then the loaner should take said person to IC court to get the money back. There's no need to change the system. IC courts will take care of it and will generally lead to a refund request that is handled once the court rules in their favor. If you're talking about a loan shark, then the person deserves what they get for scamming a loan shark. What you're suggesting just creates the problem all over again that we had in the first place before these changes. They'll just wait 2 weeks after the deadline and name change. Even being active, that's easy enough.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Sixty

[Beholder]

No. What's the point of scamming a loan, then never logging on to play that person again if you don't spend the cash. Or alternatively, you can blow the cash and never play that character again, sure. But what you're suggesting, is literally adding a loophole where somebody scams loans, then two weeks later, they namechange and do it again. Lastly, running a properly roleplayed scam doesn't involve namechanging to avoid consequences. A properly roleplayed scam should be able to actually get away from all consequences of their scam, and therefore, need to be very well thought out.