The State of Gang Beef

[TEO]

18 hours ago, Playboii said:

This seems to be an issue in Davis. Roleplaying in other parts of the map drastically changes the level of roleplay that happens in other parts. Other than that dude mentioning that RoE revision, I think IFM has been doing a good job of removing these troll and subpar factions. I’ve been beefing with a lot of factions in the Southside as of late and the roleplay has been phenomenal. One of the best beefs I’ve had in a long time comes from Darkside. Sure they report here and there, but it all gets squared up and for the most part the beef is kept ICly. I’ve been seeing this issue more and more as we moved from Del Perro to Vespucci. We had our first encounter with the DWB and it eventually broke into a brawl. They pulled out guns immediately. This is the issue, if we’re brawling you and your first instinct is to pull out ur gun on our first encounter? There’s certain situations that happen in gang roleplay that just don’t make sense and it’s up to factions to act on that and do whatever they say is fit. So when one shitty thing happens another one happens, and so forth. RoE revision is the best way to go because every faction is gonna do something different. 

You outnumbered us, we flashed guns to make you leave but instead decided to fist fight people toting guns.

Not to mention you moved from Perro to Vespucci, you should reconsider your behavior and figure out how things go down in the area you have decided to move to because Del Perro was dead.

 

It's an IC issue either way. Most people won't bother with a group that spawned into a long established neighborhood and acting as if you've been there since day one, especially not peckerwoods.

 

As for the gang beefs themselves, some of them work perfectly well when they're orchestrated between the leadership of two factions, the beef between V13 and CCB13 was pretty good until shots finally started being fired.

Edited April 21, 2021 by milkman
adding to the topic

[baechi]

7 hours ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

That's an IC problem buddy. If you haven't realized yet, "normal civilians" don't stay outside after dark whilst there's 50 gang members posted outside their house, mostly because of what was mentioned - if shit goes down it's easier to catch a stray bullet and bleed out to death there. As for the shootings being done back to back on a daily basis, address it with your local law enforcement agency, go request a gang injunction. You wanna rp a civilian - yeah, cool, but at least roleplay it accordingly and don't cry once you get hit in a crossfire. As for the blockwipe permission - complete bullshit, especially if you're trying to hit a faction led by an admin. Also, read the ROE - blockwipes are already de facto banned;

 

LOL I've never seen someone so aggressive for nothing.

 

  

3 hours ago, Slimeball said:

Not the case all of the time lol. Some gangs like the Neighborhood Crips, Hoovers and Inglewood Bloods will have even more love for you if you don't let your homie lose 1v1 to the enemy. I don't know where some of you guys get this "gangster's honor" system from, but in today's climate it's not as profound as it once was in the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s. The streets are shiesty and unpredictable, that's what gang roleplay is basically, getting into shiesty and unpredictable situations and dealing being able to roleplay out the consequences.

 

This is relevant to my last paragraph as far as "gangster's honor" goes. Today is a different climate, look at the King Von situation in November. Certain gangsters are raised to the code while some are "renegades" and follow their own codes. It's all about what that certain group holds value in when it comes to gangster activity.

 

Like for example, the Inglewood Family Gangster Bloods promote head ups (1v1 fights) with other Bloods sets they've no tension with, however, if you are from IFGB and are fighting an NHC member and you start losing, your homies are REQUIRED to jump in. I'm not saying this is how every other Blood gang outside of IFGB operates, but different hoods have different codes & standards to live up to.

 

 

 

 

 

Believe me, I understand the sentiment of your grievances about block wiping because I am 100% a gang roleplayer. But in my honest opinion, if you do not want to be block wiped, avoid grouping up in large crowds of gangsters when you know it's time to "play ball" with your rivals. I know it sounds deathmatchy, but hear me out. 

 

Gang roleplay is designed to bring you all of the obstacles, trials and tribulations of portraying a gang member or living in a gang controlled environment. It isn't uncommon for large crowds to get shot up in real life especially during a war. However, it is very rare that you'll get four dudes jumping out literally hawking down 6 out of 6 individuals and killing them all individually. 

 

 

I believe groups can be shot up, but the unrealistic hawk down system attached to large group shootings should be outlawed. One shouldn't be able to PK 10 out of 10 gang members in one go round if they're not able to from the initial shooting scene. I mean, maybe you'd catch a straggler or two on your way out of the neighborhood, but literally trying to hawk down your opponents to their place of escape is a time consuming thing and can lead to your character being arrested.

 

I, as a gang roleplayer can say that if you truly want to survive in a gang beef then you'd have to realistically think and act like a gang member, make decisions based on your character's state of mind and determine what he or she may do when gang vs gang beefs set off. Some gang members run & hide from beef with other gangs while some do not.

 

And this brings me to another point about the current state of gang roleplay. Not every single gang member is going to fight, shoot or go to jail. Which brings me to my point of saying this, if you are in a gang faction right now and 10 out of 10 characters in your gang faction have slid and killed someone then there is a problem.

 

The deathmatch mentality is a recycled and misunderstood mentality in the gang community, it doesn't take for a person to kill someone to get initiated into a gang and it doesn't take for one situation to lead into an all out blockwipe. And just because someone attempted a block wipe doesn't mean that it should be outlawed totally, just move wiser with your decisions as a gang character.

I understand this for sure and I do realize as well that this is a reality for the setting. It's just that sometimes I could be not even with or around gang members and I'll walk outside - getting gunned down for even existing in the area (not resembling a typical gang member in appearance) which can be frustrating when you go on to RP. 

 

In a completely realistic setting, I could just never come out when the server hits the night time hours - unfortunately due to timezones this isn't a feasible option as I only see nighttime.

 

Again I'd like to reiterate, I'm okay with shootings happening and understand gang beefs will escalate to people dying on each end, especially in their own hood. I just personally believe that block wipes that include methodically going through and executing anyone who lives in a neighborhood is a little much, as opposed to something more akin to a driveby. I'll continue crying (?) when I get caught in crossfire because I know that no implementation like this would happen. I just can't help but feel like I'm targeted, not for looking gang affiliated but just so I can be another kill on some 37 view GTAW DM montage.

Edited April 21, 2021 by baechi

[The Plug]

In Rancho I've have numerous different conflicts with different factions. We had a less-than-lethal beef with the Tongans for months and that was cool for development. There are definitely situations where OOCly terms need to be set between two factions and it's necessary for coexistence of a space (if both factions want that). We've also had straight PK war conflicts which have served as development and fun also. 

 

However, I'm not a fan of brawling at all. I think it's unrealistic. IRL any brawl situation in 2021 is going to escalate into gunplay. I think the best form of beefing would be lethal beefing with the intention of continuing RP. For instance your character catches their opps posted four deep on their block, lacking like street lights. Your character slides back to the enemy block with one of his homies. Your character downs 2 out of the 4, with only one actually dying. The characters who survived would have been traumatized and it offers hella room for development without feeling like we're playing The Warriors. 

 

Instead usually when it escalates to shooting, the immediate intent is to preemptively strike and blockwipe because people want to avoid the back and forth gunplay. I think people need to embrace the back and forth gunplay and focus on making that situation into a more beneficial source of RP than it is rn. People's characters need to move better. Precautions should be took ICly. IRL if you are beefing with niggas to the point where it's just on sight gunplay, you wouldn't be posted up on the block unless you wanted your hood to be named after you. I've never been killed on my older character and only one time in 6+ months on my younger character. Despite being in multiple shootouts and brawls. Because I RP my characters having self preservation and not being a dumb ass crash dummy who posts up on the block 24/7 during a war like a victim. People need to focus more on properly RPing the fear of their character losing their life.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Patrón

[Slimeball]

13 minutes ago, baechi said:

LOL I've never seen someone so aggressive for nothing.

 

  

I understand this for sure and I do realize as well that this is a reality for the setting. It's just that sometimes I could be not even with or around gang members and I'll walk outside - getting gunned down for even existing in the area (not resembling a typical gang member in appearance) which can be frustrating when you go on to RP. 

 

In a completely realistic setting, I could just never come out when the server hits the night time hours - unfortunately due to timezones this isn't a feasible option as I only see nighttime.

 

Again I'd like to reiterate, I'm okay with shootings happening and understand gang beefs will escalate to people dying on each end, especially in their own hood. I just personally believe that block wipes that include methodically going through and executing anyone who lives in a neighborhood is a little much, as opposed to something more akin to a driveby. I'll continue crying (?) when I get caught in crossfire because I know that no implementation like this would happen. I just can't help but feel like I'm targeted, not for looking gang affiliated but just so I can be another kill on some 37 view GTAW DM montage.

No I definitely agree. I feel like the only way to tame senseless block wipers is something in the RoE that states that the person who initiated personal conflict with your faction / character needs to be present in game in order for a shooting to occur. I've seen situations such as you've mentioned where we've jumped a character in a rival gang and then they've retaliated on residents in our faction who haven't even taken part in the situation while we weren't even in game. 

 

7 minutes ago, Patrón said:

In Rancho I've have numerous different conflicts with different factions. We had a less-than-lethal beef with the Tongans for months and that was cool for development. There are definitely situations where OOCly terms need to be set between two factions and it's necessary for coexistence of a space (if both factions want that). We've also had straight PK war conflicts which have served as development and fun also. 

 

However, I'm not a fan of brawling at all. I think it's unrealistic. IRL any brawl situation in 2021 is going to escalate into gunplay. I think the best form of beefing would be lethal beefing with the intention of continuing RP. For instance your character catches their opps posted four deep on their block, lacking like street lights. Your character slides back to the enemy block with one of his homies. Your character downs 2 out of the 4, with only one actually dying. The characters who survived would have been traumatized and it offers hella room for development without feeling like we're playing The Warriors. 

 

Instead usually when it escalates to shooting, the immediate intent is to preemptively strike and blockwipe because people want to avoid the back and forth gunplay. I think people need to embrace the back and forth gunplay and focus on making that situation into a more beneficial source of RP than it is rn. People's characters need to move better. Precautions should be took ICly. IRL if you are beefing with niggas to the point where it's just on sight gunplay, you wouldn't be posted up on the block unless you wanted your hood to be named after you. I've never been killed on my older character and only one time in 6+ months on my younger character. Despite being in multiple shootouts and brawls. Because I RP my characters having self preservation and not being a dumb ass crash dummy who posts up on the block 24/7 during a war like a victim. People need to focus more on properly RPing the fear of their character losing their life.

I agree 100%. Couldn't of said it better myself self preservation is what gang roleplay tends to lack. There's literally been people roleplaying beef for short spans of time because they're itching for a PK / CK on their rival in that situation. And it usually leads to speedy development in ones character. In the matter of 1 week someone's character can go from a new kid on the block to an IC killer with 6-7 bodies because they've PKed someone.

 

 

I hate it when people in gang RP rush their development like that. They force PKs into their character development to feed their egos OOC of having a "bad ass character". Literally someone will RP getting shot in the leg one day and being on crutches, then 2 days later they're participating in attacks on rival factions.

[EffPee]

7 minutes ago, Patrón said:

We've also had straight PK war conflicts which have served as development and fun also. 

How can straight PK war conflicts serve as development? In essence of the term, straight PK wars are when people just go out to kill whoever they see and they don't really RP any of it between factions, they might RP a lead-up with their own faction but that doesn't really do much. Players should be aiming to supplement everyone's roleplay, not just their own faction. You said yourself, ride out and shoot for roleplay; not to kill. I can't find any development in riding out daily to catch bodies without roleplaying with the opposition other than the /me you use to shoot them. 

  

5 minutes ago, Patrón said:

People's characters need to move better. Precautions should be took ICly. IRL if you are beefing with niggas to the point where it's just on sight gunplay, you wouldn't be posted up on the block unless you wanted your hood to be named after you. I've never been killed on my older character and only one time in 6+ months on my younger character. Despite being in multiple shootouts and brawls. Because I RP my characters having self preservation and not being a dumb ass crash dummy who posts up on the block 24/7 during a war like a victim. People need to focus more on properly RPing the fear of their character losing their life.

This only leads to people RPing in interiors 24/7 unless they want to ride out until the war is over. Players shouldn't fear that they'll get shot every time the cooldown ends, People ride out one day and then the next, and then the next; even shooters IRL don't go out killing people every single day. 

 

I've noticed on this thread people have only been mentioning brawls and shooting. That's half the problem right there. There is so much more to gang conflict than fighting and shooting, I won't list them again because I have in an earlier post, but emphasis needs to stop being put on brawls and shooting; it needs to be put on the more supplementary actions like net-banging, tag banging etc. These add atmosphere to the beef, it gives you the feeling of rising tensions and impending doom without knowing how far the war has actually gotten. When people are only concerned with discussing brawls and shootings, we can't expect to revitalise gang conflict. 

 

 

[DoomedAmerica]

People love to use the term 'Blockwipe' I been in situations where a faction had 2 members shot down and they called it a blockwipe, imo this is what a blockwipe actually looks like; 

https://streamable.com/0ydo1p

[Slimeball]

1 minute ago, DoomedAmerica said:

People love to use the term 'Blockwipe' I been in situations where a faction had 2 members shot down and they called it a blockwipe, imo this is what a blockwipe actually looks like; 

https://streamable.com/0ydo1p

Oh no trust and believe we're speaking on situations similar to that in that streamable without bashing any one faction directly. I think what people misunderstand about the term "block wipe" is that block wiping is when you simply try your best to PK any and everybody in sight in that faction's hood to prevent them from retaliating on characters. That's the audience I'm targeting when I use the term block wipe.

 

Can everyone on this topic keep it civil though? Every time gang RP is mentioned in general discussions there's a tendency of some of us using threads like this to flush out frustrations by calling a faction or two out. Let's try and stick to the topic without getting into petty arguments on the forums with legal roleplayers and members of "rival factions", and just explain what we believe is wrong or right with gang beef on the server and what we can do to improve it altogether as gang rpers.

[EffPee]

Blockwiping = The intent to kill everyone you see in your rival gangs territory.

 

It doesn't matter if there's only two people there, if you're aiming to kill everyone on sight then the amount of people out doesn't matter to you. Naturally this is contextual as IC your character could actually be planning to kill everyone there, it's on you OOC to decide if you want more roleplay to come of this or if you just want to catch bodies. Players ride out and plan to kill everyone on the block, whether it be two people or six people. That intent is the issue, the outcome isn't.

 

In a situation where someone brought 6 people in retaliation for an attack that claimed a single life, where the players involved admitted they were planning on killing everyone on sight, we were told that the intent wasn't blockwiping and no punishment would come of it simply because only two bodies were dropped. I'm not coming for anyone in particular and I am not downplaying the resolution when I say this. If you bring 6 people to retaliate for one death; whether you claim 1-2 bodies or 5-6; the intent is still blockwiping and as such it should be treated as poor portrayal and rulebreaking. This is such a change I think should come to RoE, blockwiping should entail the objective behind the attack as well as the outcome. 

[The Plug]

1 minute ago, EffPee said:

How can straight PK war conflicts serve as development? In essence of the term, straight PK wars are when people just go out to kill whoever they see and they don't really RP any of it between factions, they might RP a lead-up with their own faction but that doesn't really do much. Players should be aiming to supplement everyone's roleplay, not just their own faction. You said yourself, ride out and shoot for roleplay; not to kill. I can't find any development in riding out daily to catch bodies without roleplaying with the opposition other than the /me you use to shoot them. 

 

 

 

Because sometimes unfortunately with the amount of random factions which pop up in South LS, that's as far as they're trying to go when it comes to RP beef. You're generalizing. If I dropped a video of the amount of people who drive into the main lot in Rancho doing retarded shit, it would probably be 10 hours at least. That's not even counting the beef, that's just random players. So sometimes there's only so much you can do as a faction. You keep talking like every faction has the same baseline for what they consider right and wrong. PK wars still serve as development because whomever survives their character has that conflict and the struggles in it, added to their story. However if the faction is serious, then like I said an OOC agreed upon level of lethal force between the two factions could be cool. Or more specifically like I said and you pointed out, shooting to continue RP instead of kill everyone.

 

10 minutes ago, EffPee said:

 

This only leads to people RPing in interiors 24/7 unless they want to ride out until the war is over. Players shouldn't fear that they'll get shot every time the cooldown ends, People ride out one day and then the next, and then the next; even shooters IRL don't go out killing people every single day. 

 

I've noticed on this thread people have only been mentioning brawls and shooting. That's half the problem right there. There is so much more to gang conflict than fighting and shooting, I won't list them again because I have in an earlier post, but emphasis needs to stop being put on brawls and shooting; it needs to be put on the more supplementary actions like net-banging, tag banging etc. These add atmosphere to the beef, it gives you the feeling of rising tensions and impending doom without knowing how far the war has actually gotten. When people are only concerned with discussing brawls and shootings, we can't expect to revitalise gang conflict. 

 

 

 

You're preaching to choir my guy. I'm well aware of that and members of my faction are very active tagging wise and on the IC social media. There is strong community vibe in Rancho. I don't agree with your complaint that it leads to people staying in the house. This is something that happens IRL. If beef escalates to that point, you have niggas who are going out every day trying to catch someone. Switching up hangout spots, schedules, etc is all shit that can be required IRL if you have rivals hunting you. But I do agree with your overall sentiment that shooting and brawling should only be 20% of what illegal RP is about. The sureno factions have a great community vibe going on right now, especially in South LS.

[Florida]

Gang violence has and never will be neat, structured, or pretty. It's emotional and spontaneous. I think GTA:W gangs do a good job of portraying it based on OOC faction rules & limitations they have to deal with.