Kappaurel Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) Well, this is a topic I want to bring up, as I believe there is more than enough evidence showing that the CK appeals process has to be revamped, or something. Please, do not derail the topic or attack admins or admin sections (IFM, LFM...) cause this will get locked right away, and we all know it. Keep it respectful, admins are volunteers that make the server possible for us. Alright, so, it's quite clear that the time for CK appeals to be handled is unacceptable, even more given the conditions of how CKs are handled: The CKed player has no say in the CK Request. It is handled behind his back (to avoid metagaming, of course), and the person requesting it can either not be honest, or exaggerate stuff... this can lead to unfair CKs. The problem is that, by the time the CK appeal is processed, and a time over a month has passed, the player has usually lost all chance to involve his character back in roleplay again. The time doesn't stop, roleplay keeps going, and by the moment that month has passed... the roleplay for your character is well dead. I will quote two quick examples of this: Jebediah Graves, whose CK appeal took 1 month to be handled, lost all opportunity to keep RPing with his character, as by the moment of his appeal being accepted the faction he was part of was already dead, and he could not take part in the outcome. And another possible example may be: If the CK Appeal happens to succeed, it will not matter, in 4 days it will reach the 1 month mark, the player has made another prosecutor who has ongoing investigations, there were several announcements regarding Jacqueline's death... I don't think there is a chance for the character to come back regardless of the result. THEREFORE I find quite clear that the system needs a revamp, to make the CK Appeals: Meaningful Time-wise reasonable Right now the chance of your appeal being accept meaning absolutely nothing is really high, you can lose a character that you built for 2000, 3000, 4000 or 5000... hours over 6 or more months over an unfair CK. And this is simply heinous, and I'm sure it has made, and will make people quit the server as a whole. Thank you for reading, and please keep it on topic and respectful. Finally, a list of all current ACTIVE (not even going to mention past, and you can check there are a lot of them to quote to support my argument) CK Appeals that exceed a reasonable time https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/37839-character-kill-appeal-richard-balistrieri/ - 4 months and 13 days since it was posted, no answer https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/37802-character-kill-appeal-daniel-pan/ - 4 months and 14 days https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/45230-character-kill-appeal-garegin-hasasyan/ - 1 month since last reply, no answer https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/45308-character-kill-appeal-jacqueline-keating/ - 1 month in 4 days https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/45380-character-kill-appeal-kane-puledrotti/ - the user commented a response half a month ago, no answer POSSIBLE FIXES: When a player is CKed through a CK application, an admin shall tell him that he has been killed through a CK app, and ask him if he will contest it. If the player says yes, the situation will be taken as a PK, and the player will have to post a CK Appeal within 72 hours or maybe 5 days. If the player wins the Appeal, it remains as PK, if he doesn't then the character gets CKed. Allow players that are to be CKed to have a say in their CK App. Maybe an admin could ask some questions "How was your interaction with this group", "Why did you do this against this person"... CK Apps as it stands is a one-sided process where only the part that kills can say stuff. Edited April 13, 2021 by Kappaurel 16 Link to comment
Tennplugg Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I have to agree, CK appeals take ages to get an answer to. 1 Link to comment
marbella mondays Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Just now, Tennplugg said: I have to agree, CK appeals take ages to get an answer to. Link to comment
Mitch Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, Tennplugg said: I have to agree, CK appeals take ages to get an answer to. Link to comment
Thekillergreece Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I am curious which of all administrators can handle the Character Kill requests. Any admin rank or seniors? Link to comment
Tennplugg Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, thekillergreece said: I am curious which of all administrators can handle the Character Kill requests. Any admin rank or seniors? Believe it's IFM, LFM and Management. Link to comment
Lomadias Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I agree from the side of a player, I can't comment on practicality because, well I'm not an admin. I imagine, especially in cases that involve multiple factions, it's back and forth between IFM, LFM and god knows who else, to get to the bottom of a situation. Be interesting to see the workflow for these, but it'd be nice to see them handled a little quicker, resource depending. Link to comment
Hollywood Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) CK appeals should just be removed and handled as a player report. From what I've seen just about every CK appeal revolves around the kind of rule breaking that you'd see reported normally. Metagaming, poor RP, power-gaming etc. No reason that such a small group of the entire community should be handling CK appeals when the rules and standards surrounding CKs are relatively clear cut. Edited April 13, 2021 by Hollywood Link to comment
Beholder Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Sometimes you have to consider how long it takes to actually build up a profile for a CK request, along with the evidence. Then consider how long it takes staff to consider whether not its appropriate, but also how might it affect a faction in whole, or even the server entirely. Then you have staff members that are just simply too busy investigating so many other things. Although, some of these examples are definitely a little worrying, being so old. But really this is something that staff would have to speak on to give us a little more insight but in short, Yeah it'd be nice if things were resolved quickly, I'm sure everybody wants that. Link to comment
DasFroggy Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) This is particularly problematic, as different admins have different attitudes and interpretations for different rules, and they can't always have all the necessary facts to make a fully informed decision, so a bad CK will inevitably get through the filters, hence the existence of the CK appeal forum. ...except that if the CK is bad, the character is unavailable regardless for the ENTIRE DURATION OF THE APPEAL. Understandably, that can be a little off-putting to find only after months or even over a year of watching the world move on, the character absence was really just an unfortunate case of "my bad." What makes it particularly souring, is that if the CK appeal sits for too long, it is eventually denied on the basis of "it's been too long to reverse." and thus regardless of how shoddy the CK really was, idle time on the part of the CK appeal staff has now made the entire purpose of the CK appeals meaningless. There needs to either be a better, more efficient process through which to ensure CK appeals are handled, or the workload needs to be diminished by demanding a higher standard for CKs to be accepted. A character not being roleplayed, is a roleplayer not enjoying their time here. It may be a dozen or so impacted by this at the most, but those numbers pile up over time. Those dozen become a guaranteed dozen more when some other problem arises and dissuades dozens of others from continuing their roleplay here. Some dynamic of the system needs to change. Reducing CK's in general may be a good means to ensure the load is light enough for staff to handle in a timely manner. Edited April 13, 2021 by DasFroggy 1 Link to comment
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