Mission Row & Investigative Holds

[DLimit]

6 minutes ago, Florida said:

 

You contradicted yourself again with your own sources. Those articles are clearly saying when you are ARRESTED. If you are arrested, they can hold you for up to 48 hours before putting on charges. That is because they have probable cause to take you into custody.

 

You cannot be taken into custody for reasonable suspicion alone. They must have probable cause to do this 48 hour hold thing, which means they already have criminal charges against you.

And, while detained? They don't have a set limit. It can extend throughout an investigation, which IS the case for migrants within the U.S. and other subjects that are "indefinitely detained" for reasonable suspicion of terrorism or an extremely felonious crime.

[Florida]

Just now, DLimit said:

And, while detained? They don't have a set limit. It can extend throughout an investigation, which IS the case for migrants within the U.S. and other subjects that are "indefinitely detained" for reasonable suspicion of terrorism or an extremely felonious crime.

 

Migrants are a terrible example. They have probable cause for their arrest, as it's a federal crime.

[DLimit]

3 minutes ago, Florida said:

 

Migrants are a terrible example. They have probable cause for their arrest, as it's a federal crime.

You mean illegal migrants. I'm talking about those that are traveling to the U.S., legally, but are placed inside of detention centers to investigate whether they are connected or associated to terrorist organizations, war criminals, or threatening illegal organized crime rings. Most of these people are placed inside cells for twenty years before ever seeing the light of day.

The same practice is applied during protests, but only for as long as the investigation is "deemed reasonable", which is why most of the protestors are "Free to Go" after their 12-hour or so detainment, while a small percentage of them are arrested.

They were TRANSPORTED to a location to be detained, effectively, as no officer would stand at the side of the road, for 24-hours, to conduct an investigation.

Edited March 26, 2021 by DLimit

[Florida]

Just now, DLimit said:

You mean illegal migrants. I'm talking about those that are traveling to the U.S., legally, but are placed inside of detention centers to investigate whether they are connected or associated to terrorist organizations, war criminals, or threatening illegal organized crime rings. Most of these people are placed inside cells for twenty years before ever seeing the light of day.

The same practice is applied during protests, but only for as long as the investigation is "deemed reasonable", which is why most of the protestors are "Free to Go" after their 12-hour or so detainment, while a small percentage of them are arrested.

 

I've already answered these questions and you're just jumping through hoops to try and find an exception which doesn't apply at all to this discussion.

[KaythPlus]

Just now, Florida said:

 

I've already answered these questions and you're just jumping through hoops to try and find an exception which doesn't apply at all to this discussion.

No offense but multiple people have said this is derailing the thread and at this point its just a repetitive conversation going around in circles. If you two want to explore penal code and study law, do it in your direct messages. Not on this thread that is trying to address something else.

 

You've said your piece and got your point across, there is no need to go to and fro for multiple hours expressing the same thing over and over.

[DLimit]

Just now, Florida said:

 

I've already answered these questions and you're just jumping through hoops to try and find an exception which doesn't apply at all to this discussion.

You actually didn't answer those questions. You claimed that they were all arrested for engaging in an "illegal protest", but they were DETAINED. A SMALL PERCENTAGE get arrested while the rest are free to go, as they have to INVESTIGATE those that were involved in the illegal acts at the protest.

You didn't respond to the migrant example, either. I'm listing examples in-which detainments can be extended to 12-hours or even 20 years, if deemed reasonable.

[Bauer]

Investigatory Holds are a necessary evil. If you find legal issues address them ICly through the courts. However, they might not accept your legal challenges due to the necessity of the holds on an OOC basis due to how important these holds are. I mainly use them when I need to question a suspect and need to coordinate login times via discord. Then once I've questioned them I either arrest or cut them loose depending on what is said.

[Alyssa McCarthy]

9 minutes ago, DLimit said:

All articles claim that detainments have no set limits, and are solely based on reasonability. Doesn't matter on the severity of the situation. In the end, it states that, by law, detainments have no set limits. It can extend as far as the investigation is deemed reasonable.

I'm aware of the differences of the three. It just seems that people are not understanding that an officer CAN detain you for as long as he deems fit. If it's Unconstitutional? Then, bring it to the courts. It's no an OOC issue, but an IC issue.

 

No set time limits as you said yourself, those times are reasonable. It wouldn't be reasonable to detain someone at the roadside for a potential DUI any longer than it takes to complete a sobriety test and confirm / refute probable cause.

 

They can't move you anywhere, because they've gone beyond detaining you and need to arrest you, unless of course, you volunteer to freely.

 

Try Here: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/civil-rights/unlawful-detention/

 

[Bauer]

Just now, Alyssa McCarthy said:

 

No set time limits as you said yourself, those times are reasonable. It wouldn't be reasonable to detain someone at the roadside for a potential DUI any longer than it takes to complete a sobriety test and confirm / refute probable cause.

 

They can't move you anywhere, because they've gone beyond detaining you and need to arrest you, unless of course, you volunteer to freely.

 

Try Here: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/civil-rights/unlawful-detention/

 

This isn't what we use investigatory holds for...

[Florida]

3 minutes ago, Bauer said:

Investigatory Holds are a necessary evil. If you find legal issues address them ICly through the courts. However, they might not accept your legal challenges due to the necessity of the holds on an OOC basis due to how important these holds are. I mainly use them when I need to question a suspect and need to coordinate login times via discord. Then once I've questioned them I either arrest or cut them loose depending on what is said.

I really just have one question regarding the holds. Do you have probable cause for the suspects arrest when the hold is placed on the MDC?