Mission Row & Investigative Holds

[NickXI]

You can be held for up to 48 hours or less without a charge given that the officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred. Investigative holds are completely legal.

[Florida]

2 minutes ago, NickXI said:

You can be held for up to 48 hours or less without a charge given that the officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred. Investigative holds are completely legal.

So Cops can kidnap you for 48 hours with no probable cause for that persons arrest? That is not legal at all.

 

Can someone post the source of this decision.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Florida

[Westen]

Just now, Florida said:

So Cops can kidnap you for 48 hours with no probable cause for that persons arrest? That is not legal at all.

 

Can someone post the source of this decision.

907.) A peace officer may detain someone for up to 48 hours, in relation to an active investigation. During such a period, they will be held in police custody, and may upon request contact their legal representation. 

 

From the penal code:

 

[NickXI]

1 minute ago, Florida said:

So Cops can kidnap you for 48 hours with no probable cause for that persons arrest? That is not legal at all.

 

Can someone post the source of this decision.

It's not kidnapping if they have probable cause. Which is why they have detained you in the first place.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

1 minute ago, Florida said:

So Cops can kidnap you for 48 hours with no probable cause for that persons arrest? That is not legal at all.

 

Can someone post the source of this decision.

LMAO thats not a kidnapping https://www.vjamesdesimonelaw.com/how-long-can-you-be-held-by-police-without-a-charge/

[Florida]

1 minute ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

LMAO thats not a kidnapping https://www.vjamesdesimonelaw.com/how-long-can-you-be-held-by-police-without-a-charge/

  You are correct, and that article is correct. That is if you are UNDER ARREST. You said DETAINED. Those are not the same thing.

 

1 minute ago, NickXI said:

It's not kidnapping if they have probable cause. Which is why they have detained you in the first place.

  

You said in your original post Reasonable Suspicion. Now you're saying Probable Cause. Those are two very different things.

 

2 minutes ago, Westen said:

907.) A peace officer may detain someone for up to 48 hours, in relation to an active investigation. During such a period, they will be held in police custody, and may upon request contact their legal representation. 

 

From the penal code:

 

[Sixty]

1 hour ago, NickXI said:

You can be held for up to 48 hours or less without a charge given that the officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred.

Incorrect. Reasonable suspicion is not grounds for an arrest and investigative hold. It must meet the standard of probable cause to engage in the arrest and potential 48 hour hold. The IC penal code, in my opinion, doesn't use the language correctly. Within the United States, you can not detain someone for 48 hours. If you have reasonable suspicion you can detain someone during a traffic stop and such so long as the detainment is "brief and cursory" within the scope of the situation. In order to arrest said person, there must be probable cause.

 

https://www.maricopa.gov/919/Probable-Cause-Versus-Reasonable-Suspici

 

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/arrest-vs-detention-how-tell-whether-you-ve-been-arrested-simply-detained.html

 

You can not arrest someone on basis of reasonable suspicion, which is basically a "hunch". There must be clear-cut, probable cause to arrest them. At that point, you can place an investigative hold on someone for generally 48-72 hours depending on the state. If people are being arrested IC'ly based on a reasonable suspicion and not probable cause and then placed on a 48 hour hold so the evidence can be found after-the-fact, this is a huge misinterpretation of law and it's being taught wrong. I'm not saying that's what is happening, but that is how it should be taught.

 

At this point, our IC lawyers should be studying this distinction very closely because I'm going to venture a guess and say not all 48 hour holds in-game were done correctly based on the subject matter above. It's a confusing distinction between detain, arrest, reasonable suspicion and probable cause at first glance, but I'm sure it's not done right 100% of the time. This would open up the LSPD to legal ramifications that could ruin cases and more.

 

Great example within that article:

https://imgur.com/IHqByWt

 

6 hours ago, Rascal Doporto said:

• No one I asked or spoke to knew what I was there for other than "investigative hold" I also witnessed someone else ask for their charges and it was the same thing, it created some confusion between the officers being roleplayed with, the only answer they were able to give was "you're here until the detective has finished investigating."
• A lead on from point one - once an attorney was sourced I was unable to tell them what my charges, or suspected charges were, I had to tell them the story of what happened and have them make their own assumptions as to what they'd be and then go from there.

This tells me the process is not being done correctly, as I detailed above. You can not be detained for 48 hours because a detainment only requires reasonable suspicion, which is nothing more than a hunch. They can not arrest you at that point. It sounds like this is being taught completely wrong by the LSPD and penal code. You must be arrested on probable cause and THEN they can place a 48 hour on you pending investigation. Read my statements above here and read the articles (if you have time). This is a larger problem than it initially seemed.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Sixty

[Koko]

1 hour ago, Florida said:

Investigative holds aren't a real thing so I am not sure what you're talking about from real life. If you got put into a cell you were already under arrest.

I don't know the real life lingo as I'm not an LEO, and I'm not American, but I'm comparing this to being put in Preventive Detention which is most definitely a thing where I come from (where you can be detained up to 72 hours in Spain under suspicion of a crime and then be either taken in front of a judge or freed but for legal purposes as far as I understand it you're still detained and not arrested).

Edited March 25, 2021 by Koko

[Bauer]

2 hours ago, Florida said:

I don't know how any of this compares to Nazi Germany.

7 hours ago, Rascal Doporto said:

n real life you're told what crime you're suspected of when you're put under arrest

An investigative hold is not an arrest. It's a detention. You do not need to be charged with a crime to be detained. 

 

3 hours ago, Florida said:

If I'm detained, and a Cop puts me in their car and drives me to the station against my will, I am under arrest. That is kidnapping.

No. You're not under arrest. A detention and an arrest are separate things. 

 

 

 

Anyways, here's a quote from Title 9 of the San Andreas Penal Code:

907.) A peace officer may detain someone for up to 48 hours, in relation to an active investigation. During such a period, they will be held in police custody, and may upon request contact their legal representation. 

 

[lux]

This is why I think civilian roles within PD are super important to provide RP to the station. No one wants to sit there alone - especially on a weekend after a week of work IRL.

 

I think having more civilian roles around the station could really help with situations like this.