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Adding debit & credit cards with the future money update


EffPee

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3 hours ago, Entity said:

A withdrawal limit would never work here, though. In real life, under normal circumstances, you don't withdraw a lot of money. GTA World works way differently, though. You can end up spending tens of thousands of dollars a day, if not more.

 

If there was a limit to credit cards, you would be forced to not make any purchase for the rest of the day (which would be really hard not to, in lots of situations and for lots of characters). If the limit was high enough to accommodate for normal daily transactions, then people would just empty ban accounts.

 

I don't want to see this being a thing at all, though (being able to use someone else's credit cards). Right now, robberies have a chance of not working out due to the victim not carrying money around. If people were able to steal and use others' credit cards, all robberies will have a 100% chance of working out. Even with an OOC limit. If someone doesn't have $5,000 on them, they most likely will have that in the bank. 

That’s a fair point, but as I say before if devs put some thought into it I’m sure they could figure out a way to avoid a 100% success rate. 

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11 minutes ago, EffPee said:

That’s a fair point, but as I say before if devs put some thought into it I’m sure they could figure out a way to avoid a 100% success rate. 

In theory, something could be done but yeah, I don't think it'd have a positive outcome. Even if this was the case, using a stolen credit card requires you to know the PIN code if you want to withdraw money. If it's contact-less you're required to enter the PIN code if what you're buying is over a certain value and if you buy something online, unless it's really cheap, your bank will either call you or require to approve the transaction. I don't think this could happen, honestly and even if, people would just be more enticed to go out and rob others for the assets rather than the role-play.

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You can't just rob someone's credit card and max it out... That's not how it works...

 

If you're going to implement a feature like this, it would need the full lifecycle of card transactions adding.

 

it would need payments, security checks, transaction limits, chip and pin limits, it would need functionality for fraud teams to immediately contact card owners when large payment requests or an unusual request is being made as well as ways to report stolen cards and action credit card clawbacks, it would need easy ways to see how and where any balance transfers were made, all at the touch of a few buttons.


It's not a simple case of steal someone's card & have access to all their money (and i'm not saying you're suggesting it is), but having spent years working for a huge IT company that deals with millions of dollars of transactions daily via cards, paypal and other methods, these systems are hugely complex to prevent the simple schemes that are being requested.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

You can't just rob someone's credit card and max it out... That's not how it works...

 

If you're going to implement a feature like this, it would need the full lifecycle of card transactions adding.

 

it would need payments, security checks, transaction limits, chip and pin limits, it would need functionality for fraud teams to immediately contact card owners when large payment requests or an unusual request is being made as well as ways to report stolen cards and action credit card clawbacks, it would need easy ways to see how and where any balance transfers were made, all at the touch of a few buttons.


It's not a simple case of steal someone's card & have access to all their money (and i'm not saying you're suggesting it is), but having spent years working for a huge IT company that deals with millions of dollars of transactions daily via cards, paypal and other methods, these systems are hugely complex to prevent the simple schemes that are being requested.

 

 

I’m by no means saying this would be a simple update to add, but they’re already completely changing the money script and I think if we’re gonna have to RP using debit cards for everything, why not make that system better by actually adding debit cards and credit cards as an item? I mean we’ll see how complex the system is already when the deep-dive thread drops but I think there’s a lot of potential here.

 

Also when I say max it out, I was misconstrued. In terms of credit card fraud, it is possible to go crazy with barely any limit. However yes, you cannot do that with just any old debit card you find. As I know many people do roleplay around credit card fraud and skimming, I think an actual system might make this a lot better for them too.

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What you've got to remember is that you need 24 hour support for credit cards - no players are going to do that, and this would then become an admin task.

 

For instance, let's imagine you rob me and take my cards and phone.

 

I'm going to ask a person on the street if i can use their cellphone and explained I was just robbed or find a payphone to call my card company.

 

My card would be reported as stolen and cancelled in minutes.

 

IG that becomes impossible because we're reliant on someone to action that (which could only be done if an IG bank faction could provide 24/7 support or admins agree to do the task, or we get a command to immediately shut down our own cards ourselves (which defeats the object).

 

As soon as the amounts are reported as fraudlent use, the transactions have to also be refunded back to the card owner - so that's another system that needs to exist and this would become very open to player abuse and people trying to not just IG scam money (nothing wrong with that), but also OOC scam money too (and that's a bigger issue of cheating).

 

Also, major credit card fraud isn't committed through robbery (because cards are reported as stolen within minutes and before they can ever get used for a meaningful transaction). Major credit card fraud is committed via obtaining card and personal details via various snooping and fishing techniques.

 

Again, not saying this is a bad idea btw, it would actually be great to add modern day crime rather than criminals living in a world of the 1930's-1980's, but you can't expect to rob someone of their card and expect to use it - that's just entirely unrealistic because the minute someone reports their card as stolen, which would happen in minutes, the card is rendered useless.

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Perhaps a system similar to the ankle monitor tampering system would suffice, if you manage to call up an NPC bank, a given time-frame in the script would be randomised and the card gets cancelled; in which case it’s up to the robber to be fast enough to use it.

 

We could also sometimes rely on the courtesy of others, you RP stealing a debit card and the victim offers to banktransfer you a certain amount of money that you can then use to buy items and sell on for profit. 

I don’t proclaim to be great with the ins-and-outs of an idea that has the potential to be as complex as this, I just wanted to see other people’s thoughts and if they knew of ways to improve it.

 

There’s any number of ways this system could work and be remapped around the way Los Santos works as a whole, it wouldn’t necessarily have to work in a way that’s identical to real life, but given the right amount of development and brainstorming I think it could improve this new money update immensely. 

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The issue you have is any major theft on a card can't be done in minutes, or even hours.

 

Let's say a major transaction like buying a car - If you've ever gone to a car dealers in the real world, it's a process that takes a long time to purchase. You can't just run in, press Y and buy a car in a matter of seconds (something you could do IG). It's a process that takes far longer than it takes someone to report a stolen card. The only way a criminal could IC get away with that is via poor RP quality.

 

And that's forgetting that RL of course, when buying a car, you have to provide proof of ID, proof of address and go through bank verification checks to authorize high ticket payments. (i'm talking because I do know what i'm talking about here).

The point being, even if you robbed me, and for whatever reason I didn't report it immediately (maybe i'm in hospital), you won't be able to get away with spending huge amounts of money.

The evidence for this is fairly obvious btw - if it was that simple, car dealerships would be out of business and everyone would have a freely stolen untraceable car.

 

Of course, you never mentioned cars, but i'm just using that as an example.

 

Transferring a stolen card into meaningul cash is far harder. Sure, even if you had someway to input my pin code into the ATM, you'd be restrained by fairly low limits - because no-one uses large amounts of cash to buy anything anymore, cash withdrawal limits are very low.

 

Not using cash is extremely common in the US where credit cards are extremely common, so there is no need for high withdrawal limits on cards. Most people don't even use cash in restaurants where they're paying $1-200 bills for their food. Heck, most people don't even use cash when buying groceries.

Also, people would need multiple bank accounts, because most folk have a current account that they keep spare cash in, like maybe a few grand, and then there major money is in a savings account which doesn't have a card attached to it and can only be transfered to/from via online banking etc.

The method this is done successfully for large values is via cyber crime - and that involves various methods to obtain a persons card details AND their personal details so they can steal the identity of said person to make a high value transaction without being immediately caught out. Often this will also include obtaining their phone, because if you do try and spend 10k on someone's card, you can bet that their bank is soon going to make a call asking them to confirm the purchase - so you also better sound like the right gender of the person you're scamming.

 

It's not necessarily a bad idea to add cards IG, but it would require a script and implementation that i'm just gonna say is so huge, it would take years of development to action properly - it's a huge task that would require significant resources to action.

 

Is it a good idea? I think it's actually a great idea, but that comes with the caveat that it has to be done realistically and make the methods of scamming realistic too. Snatching my card and taking 10k from my account to make a quick theft / buck? not a chance in hell.


TLDR; Banking / Cards aren't a simple scam / snatch & grab - an entire banking system would need implementing to safeguard consumers and businesses from exactly the type of activity you're asking for - because what is being asked for 'stealing cards & access to money via theft/fraud' is an incredibly complex process, far more complicated than stealing my card and running away with it.

 

Edited by Alyssa McCarthy
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Buying a car with a credit card, what?

There's many other ways to use credit and debit cards apart from going to the bank and cash out. I support this as it creates a lot of RP around fraud and it is something I believe that should be looked up. We're in 2021 this is what people do right now. It's not as complex as you would think. I think you can spend up to $100 IRL with Paypass. 

 

I only agree on what you're saying if the roleplay is mainly about stealing the card and trying to cash out at an ATM which I believe is kind of poor RP.

Edited by Peruvian Flake
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Everything Alysssa's said is valid here.

Stealing cards is not a get-rich-quick scheme and unlike being being robbed of cash, the card holder will likely get reimbursed for the money by their bank/credit card company the second they flag the card as stolen, IF your transactions go through at all. This even happens in the case of card skimmers: once you flag a withdrawal or charge as fraudulent, the bank's investigations start and the victim usually gets their money back within a day or two. Most banks instantly start calling/e-mailing/blocking charges over a few hundred dollars - not even CLOSE to $1k.

 

Also in the event you do rob a debit card, you need the pin #. And if you don't have a way to make an instant transaction inside a store, the victim could give you the wrong pin. And if you steal a credit card, you might need the zip code, which they could lie about, as well. If you try to be sneaky and buy crypto with it and vanish, you'll have to fill out tons of info and verification measures (like selfies holding their license) and so that's not an option either.

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