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Adding debit & credit cards with the future money update


EffPee

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I say we wait for a little and allow the IRS faction and the banks to establish themselves before adding script features that rely on players in those factions using commands.

 

From what I understand, the new banking system will be controlled by a player faction/business. I wish for it to be a player business and allow anyone to start a bank given enough funds. At some point, each player will have to register a bank account or be limited to cash only. The IRS faction will be responsible for making sure you pay the debt you owe while the bank business. Whichever you choose to create an account with. Will be accountable for credit cards and freezing assets. DOJ can also issue an asset freeze with a warrant when characters are found guilty of white-collar crime, primarily tax evasion.

Edited by disnep
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4 hours ago, disnep said:

I say we wait for a little and allow the IRS faction and the banks to establish themselves before adding script features that rely on players in those factions using commands.

 

From what I understand, the new banking system will be controlled by a player faction/business. I wish for it to be a player business and allow anyone to start a bank given enough funds. At some point, each player will have to register a bank account or be limited to cash only. The IRS faction will be responsible for making sure you pay the debt you owe while the bank business. Whichever you choose to create an account with. Will be accountable for credit cards and freezing assets. DOJ can also issue an asset freeze with a warrant when characters are found guilty of white-collar crime, primarily tax evasion.

No IRS faction, it will be taken by LSPD. Said by the management 

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23 hours ago, EffPee said:

We can’t just grow out of robberies on this server, there isn’t enough opportunities for illegal money to be made, and you’re suggesting criminals just stop doing crime? Sounds like a great plan for characters based off of criminality.

Robbery is not the only crime that exists - I've been very open about how desperately I want to see white collar crime work, but the career criminal player base seems to be stuck on armed robberies and drug dealing as the only things that could exist.

 

Where are the burglary rings? You could easily tail someone home in a fancy car from a ritzy night club and expect they're keeping some decent goodies at home. Where's the embezzlement from all these businesses? Where's the fake ID ring, especially with ULSA in the mix? The world is ripe for fresh ideas, but there's nothing driving that innovation because it's far easier to shove a gun in someone's face, knowing the inordinately restrictive concept of 'fear RP' will punish players who don't respond exactly how you wish them to.


Robberies are the last thing we want to encourage, but we don't want them to go away entirely. Just mostly. There are other more complex fraud and theft schemes like skimming a card that myself and others would be happy to see. Honestly, if a criminal shows a little ingenuity in their scheme and the system isn't entirely lopsided, most players wouldn't mind having $5,000 skimmed from their credit card - but armed robberies are far more prolific on the server than they are in real life.

 

How do we encourage crime that doesn't involve robbery? The server has never had a good answer to this question. Part of the blame lies with the adjudication of what "fear RP" means, but this suggestion doesn't really elaborate on anything beyond trying to make robberies feasible - promising other nebulous RP possibilities simply isn't enough.

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1 hour ago, Van said:

 

Then stop advertising your suggestion as if it wasn't for that only.

It wasn’t, but I’ll take any chance I can get to improve illegal roleplay and it goes hand-in-hand.

 

1 hour ago, Smilesville said:

Robbery is not the only crime that exists - I've been very open about how desperately I want to see white collar crime work, but the career criminal player base seems to be stuck on armed robberies and drug dealing as the only things that could exist.

 

Where are the burglary rings? You could easily tail someone home in a fancy car from a ritzy night club and expect they're keeping some decent goodies at home. Where's the embezzlement from all these businesses? Where's the fake ID ring, especially with ULSA in the mix? The world is ripe for fresh ideas, but there's nothing driving that innovation because it's far easier to shove a gun in someone's face, knowing the inordinately restrictive concept of 'fear RP' will punish players who don't respond exactly how you wish them to.


Robberies are the last thing we want to encourage, but we don't want them to go away entirely. Just mostly. There are other more complex fraud and theft schemes like skimming a card that myself and others would be happy to see. Honestly, if a criminal shows a little ingenuity in their scheme and the system isn't entirely lopsided, most players wouldn't mind having $5,000 skimmed from their credit card - but armed robberies are far more prolific on the server than they are in real life.

 

How do we encourage crime that doesn't involve robbery? The server has never had a good answer to this question. Part of the blame lies with the adjudication of what "fear RP" means, but this suggestion doesn't really elaborate on anything beyond trying to make robberies feasible - promising other nebulous RP possibilities simply isn't enough.

I speak from the perspective of someone that portrays a gang member. One with few if any organised connections; any home invasions I do are poorly planned and have high risk low reward. Fake IDs don’t make any sense with ULSA considering the characters are all of legal age anyway, not to mention ULSA roleplayers don’t tend to associate with criminals for whatever reason.


There is nothing driving innovation because the illegal roleplay scene barely has any support from development and staff, why would people want to try to better a whole RP sector if they aren’t being given the proper tools to do so? I consider myself part of a smaller crowd that does want to help the illegal roleplay scene prosper, but I don’t blame anyone that’s given up on their journey to improve it, we’re largely outnumbered and under-supported.


You’re right, the suggestion doesn’t elaborate on anything else. I’m not writing a university essay, I’m opening up an idea myself and someone else had for people to discuss and strengthen with their own ideas, had I known the thread would end up with 8 pages of anti-robbery hatred I would’ve just left it in the drafts. It’s clear you’re ignoring the other opportunities just because you feel so strongly about robberies, nothing you say will convince me otherwise. Your language choices prove to me that you’re smart enough to know that a suggestion can be altered and changed to allow balance for every participant, but you seem to be ignoring that aspect because you want to put across your “robberies are bad” agenda. 


I appreciate everyone else’s constructive criticism and ideas that could better this suggestion, but I don’t see this going anywhere if this keeps happening.

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7 minutes ago, EffPee said:

It wasn’t, but I’ll take any chance I can get to improve illegal roleplay and it goes hand-in-hand.

 

I speak from the perspective of someone that portrays a gang member. One with few if any organised connections; any home invasions I do are poorly planned and have high risk low reward. Fake IDs don’t make any sense with ULSA considering the characters are all of legal age anyway, not to mention ULSA roleplayers don’t tend to associate with criminals for whatever reason.


There is nothing driving innovation because the illegal roleplay scene barely has any support from development and staff, why would people want to try to better a whole RP sector if they aren’t being given the proper tools to do so? I consider myself part of a smaller crowd that does want to help the illegal roleplay scene prosper, but I don’t blame anyone that’s given up on their journey to improve it, we’re largely outnumbered and under-supported.


You’re right, the suggestion doesn’t elaborate on anything else. I’m not writing a university essay, I’m opening up an idea myself and someone else had for people to discuss and strengthen with their own ideas, had I known the thread would end up with 8 pages of anti-robbery hatred I would’ve just left it in the drafts. It’s clear you’re ignoring the other opportunities just because you feel so strongly about robberies, nothing you say will convince me otherwise. Your language choices prove to me that you’re smart enough to know that a suggestion can be altered and changed to allow balance for every participant, but you seem to be ignoring that aspect because you want to put across your “robberies are bad” agenda. 


I appreciate everyone else’s constructive criticism and ideas that could better this suggestion, but I don’t see this going anywhere if this keeps happening.

 

Not intending this to turn into an ULSA thread, but just to clear the above up. (you can quote me).

 

I think selling fake ID's is a great idea.


ULSA students are 18+, most of them should be in the 18-22 range (taking their bachellor degrees).

 

These means a good portion of our players are under 21 years old,  which means, plenty of them are likely to want fake ID's (21+), to purchase liquor.

 

I purposefully left date of birth off the student card (Beavercard), when we designed it. 

 

My only advice is, don't turn up and immediately announce that's what you're doing, that just feels weird. Befriend a student or two, work your way into peoples friendship circles and let it grow naturally, act normal and leave the attitude at home - Every criminal RL has non criminal friends and vice versa.

 

Finally, If you feel that you are unnecessarily targeted and demanded ID without creating reason for it, keep chat logs and send them over to our RPQ team and we'll address it.

 

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1 minute ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

 

Not intending this to turn into an ULSA thread, but just to clear the above up. (you can quote me).

 

I think selling fake ID's is a great idea.


ULSA students are 18+, most of them should be in the 18-22 range (taking their bachellor degrees).

 

These means a good portion of our players are under 21 years old,  which means, plenty of them are likely to want fake ID's (21+), to purchase liquor.

 

I purposefully left date of birth off the student card (Beavercard), when we designed it. 

 

My only advice is, don't turn up and immediately announce that's what you're doing, that just feels weird. Befriend a student or two, work your way into peoples friendship circles and let it grow naturally, act normal and leave the attitude at home - Every criminal RL has non criminal friends and vice versa.

 

Finally, If you feel that you are unnecessarily targeted and demanded ID without creating reason for it, keep chat logs and send them over to our RPQ team and we'll address it.

 

 

It's a good idea of course, imagine how much better it'd be if the fake ID was a physical item with small tell-tale signs its fake for a security guard to check? (Even though they most likely won't check it).

 

I'm sure there's plenty of ways to get into that roleplay, but I've seen it first hand that ULSA characters and illegal roleplayers don't get along. I'm sure that's not all of them, probably not even most of them. But it's difficult to showcase that you're not one of the illegal roleplayers they hate, as assumptions are made almost immediately.

 

Like you said though, we don't want this to get derailed. However, it's nice to know there's desire on both sides of the spectrum for systems like this.

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2 hours ago, Smilesville said:

Where are the burglary rings?

Don't mean to go too off topic but I ran two burglary rings on this server, the fact that it sometimes took up to 2+ hours for a response on the break-in request (at peak time with several admins online) was kinda demotivating. The least amount of time i've waited for a breakin to be answered was 30 minutes. Wouldn't suggest anybody attempt burglaries on this server unless you have several hours to spare and don't give a fuck about your time. 

 

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3 hours ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

ULSA students are 18+, most of them should be in the 18-22 range (taking their bachellor degrees).

 

These means a good portion of our players are under 21 years old,  which means, plenty of them are likely to want fake ID's (21+), to purchase liquor.

This would work if we could have bars/bartenders actually check a physical ID with a set DOB (to prevent powergaming) before serving alcohol. In my experience, bartenders never ask for an ID at the bar IC'ly. They just serve whoever comes up. I think fake ID stuff would do better if alcoholic establishments were held to a better standard of potentially serving to minors. I've never seen a bar shut down for not checking ID's in-game, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Sure, clubs check for an ID out front but that's a minor use-case at best for fake ID's. If there were a physical item where you had to set your DOB and couldn't change it, then it would obviously be harder to get in if you're under age. Right now, you have to take people at their word through /do DOB. I certainly hope most people are honest, but as it stands, there is no real use for a fake ID with the current system.

 

Create the need for fake ID's, then there might be a use-case for them.

Edited by Sixty
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5 hours ago, Pathway said:

Don't mean to go too off topic but I ran two burglary rings on this server, the fact that it sometimes took up to 2+ hours for a response on the break-in request (at peak time with several admins online) was kinda demotivating. The least amount of time i've waited for a breakin to be answered was 30 minutes. Wouldn't suggest anybody attempt burglaries on this server unless you have several hours to spare and don't give a fuck about your time. 

These aren't the only things that go neglected - CK appeals go unanswered for months at a time, and there's nothing that will impact your character more than those. Perhaps, then, we should take a serious look at the activities that generate the vast majority of player reports that staff have to sift through.

Robberies.

 

Not to beat a (very) dead horse, but to circle around to the suggestion again, it would be terrible for the server in its current iteration by virtue of the fact it would do nothing to address the issue.

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