Updating rules and perception around shooting in public areas / daylight / or near cameras

[DasFroggy]

36 minutes ago, Xaleya said:

Tf u talking about? Colombia is way more dangerous than any country on the continent, even way worse than Mexico itself.

The good news is, Google exists, so we can verify this. I did a search to see how many people were killed in Columbia last year, and a result came up quickly.

 

"395 murders"

 

"According to the nation's Police Service, 395 murders were committed in 2020, equating to a homicide rate of 28.2 per 100,000. This was a welcome decline from its 2019 total of 539, which marked one of the nation's deadliest years on record.Jan 29, 2021" 

 

So, going by those numbers, at least one person in the whole of the Somalia population dies each day. That is indeed very dangerous.

 

Colombia,

Population: 50,000,000

Murders yearly: 395

 

Now, in the GTAW iteration of los Santos, we have approximately three to five CK's a day alone. I am going to deliberately keep PKs factored out, because at that point it is just a curb stomp.

 

GTAW Los Santos,

Population: 1000 

Murders yearly: 1095

 

I deliberately maxed out population and went with the lowest possible average number of CKs I have witnessed this past week. Even despite this, we are still over twice as dangerous as Colombia, despite having not even a partial fraction of the population.

 

And this is if I don't count the PK's that happen daily.

Edited March 29, 2021 by DasFroggy

[Xaleya]

14 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

The good news is, Google exists, so we can verify this. I did a search to see how many people were killed in Columbia last year, and a result came up quickly.

 

"395 murders"

 

"According to the nation's Police Service, 395 murders were committed in 2020, equating to a homicide rate of 28.2 per 100,000. This was a welcome decline from its 2019 total of 539, which marked one of the nation's deadliest years on record.Jan 29, 2021" 

 

So, going by those numbers, at least one person in the whole of the Somalia population dies each day. That is indeed very dangerous.

 

Colombia,

Population: 50,000,000

Murders yearly: 395

 

Now, in the GTAW iteration of los Santos, we have approximately three to five CK's a day alone. I am going to deliberately keep PKs factored out, because at that point it is just a curb stomp.

 

GTAW Los Santos,

Population: 1000 

Murders yearly: 1095

 

I deliberately maxed out population and went with the lowest possible average number of CKs I have witnessed this past week. Even despite this, we are still over twice as dangerous as Colombia, despite having not even a partial fraction of the population.

As far my experience goes between both countries, criminality is more rampant and violent in Colombia than Venezuela, aside than all the Venezuela's data past of 1997 is biased, not matter the side .

Also about Colombia murder rate, that number doesn't include the missing people, only confirmed murders. Thus in Colombia is well known than paramilitary org takes over small rural towns, ending with massacres around the place, not counting other kind of stuff like the fact than in Colombia by having nothing valuable during a robbery means death, aside from other countries across the globe.

Considering than LS criminal groups behaves much like groups within the cities, Colombia criminality rate and the way they work is similar to the one in Los Santos, but far more violent and reckless. 

This goes from simple murder, extortion, kidnapping and others.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Xaleya

[DasFroggy]

11 minutes ago, Xaleya said:

that number doesn't include the missing people,

 Nor does mine. Since missing persons reports tend not to have conclusive evidence as to the said missing persons having been murdered (hence the term, missing instead of murdered) and missing persons later found murdered are counted as murdered and not missing, on top of missing persons being a possible result of many more circumstances than murder...

 

...it's a meaningless metric that only applies if you want to substitute actual facts for personal opinion and unsubstantiated, unreliable anecdotes.

16 minutes ago, Xaleya said:

. Thus in Colombia is well known than paramilitary org takes over small rural towns, ending with massacres around the place, not counting other kind of stuff like the fact than in Colombia by having nothing valuable during a robbery means death, aside from other countries across the globe.

Hold up,you mean to say that with armies that have literally planned to raze entire towns, and murder everyone, Colombia, with a total target saturation of fifty MILLION people, still barely manages even half of the confirmed murders we aomehow carry out with only street gangs, muggers, and a total population of one thousand people?

 

You're not helping your case with these claims.

 

20 minutes ago, Xaleya said:

Considering than LS criminal groups behaves much like groups within the cities, Colombia criminality rate and the way they work is similar to the one in Los Santos, but far more violent and reckless. 

Which seems to only be holding them back. Somehow, despite being as dangerous and reckless as you claim, they still pale in comparison, and that is again with the fact that all of the cities in the whole of Colombia combined, still cannot manage our one single city of one thousand people.

 

21 minutes ago, Xaleya said:

This goes from simple murder...

We are discussing murder, what is supposed to be one of the rarer crimes in comparison to extortion, robbery, burglary, etc. 

 

Now, it has also occurred to me, that in a last, frantic departure from honest discussion, criminal roleplayers are telling me that it is apparently okay for a single United States city, to have as rampant a murder problem, as the entirety of Colombia...

 

The crime problem is starting to make sense...

[DasFroggy]

12 minutes ago, Lop said:

What most of you overlook in my opinion is that the playerbase is not and is not supposed to be the entire population. We don't live in a 1000 population metropolis, we live in a megacity with several million inhabitants lore-wise.

 

The reason why crime seems so rampant is that we are only portraying the interesting characters and situations that happen to them. Nobody roleplays the 20 years old amateur gamer with a blue collar job who has nothing happen to him ever and who stays home all the time. These people exist lore-wise, but nobody plays that.

 

Judging crime rates by the population of characters we have on this server is the same as only watching the news and then complaining about the entire world revolving around violence and politics. The non-interesting non-criminals are not being roleplayed. You can't take the server population as an IC fact.

Which is cool and all, but not the core reason for the debate. People absolutely can be interesting and dangerous, for sure. This is literally a roleplay server built around a shooter, and as with previous iterations, part of the appeal is that realism is not as heavy a burden.

 

As it is almost regularly self-professed from the criminal community, our crime situation is nowhere near the realm of realistic, and that is even AFTER downplaying the numbers to be as favorable towards the criminals as possible. I am fine with that.

 

...what I am not fine with, is when the same criminal community then turns around and insists that realism is on the line when they are denied something or blocked from certain behaviors by rules.

 

If realism is a factor in these debates, if realism is what criminals want, we can first tackle the wildly unrealistic crime rate, and then discuss allowing for more realistic OOC allowances.

[DasFroggy]

1 minute ago, Lop said:

I don't think the crime rates are too high

The numbers say otherwise. The criminal community's repeated push for selective realism has ultimately led to actual numbers and science being applied, in which our wildly out of control super murder situation is now quantifiable.

 

4 minutes ago, Lop said:

I think the quality and portrayal are horrendous.

People fundamentally misunderstand why people commit crimes or what a "gang" actually is and how it feels like to depend on crime for a living.

 

I've read things like "gangbangers aren't smart, otherwise they'd be in college and not in a gang" in a roleplay guide.

 

The problem is that people portray criminals as these always-aggressive people who think crime is cool and are part of this in-group of criminals for fun.

Someone should tell them that being a criminal, even a gang member or a serial white collar criminal, is first and foremost a person. With friends, hobbies, fun, emotions, anxiety, fears; and in 99% of cases, they don't consider themselves bad people. They just have a different kind of job in their eyes. They want to break out of the constant anxiety and fear of being caught, but are dragged back into it regularly.

This is a good point, and I agree with it. Something else we lack is the criminal awareness of a healthy criminal atmosphere, and the attitude of criminals recognizing their own criminals.

 

When you rob people, it's a two-sided risk, namely that if you make a mistake and Rob at the wrong time, you get arrested. If you rob the wrong people, you get sized up for a cheap cement coffin, and it is oh so easy to rob the wrong people.

 

What we lack is a monolithic organized criminal presence, some sort of central mafia body that can sit criminals down and tell them the rules, where and when to commit crime, to ensure business is good for everyone. With that and the police fighting the low-quality crimegrinders on both sides, I suspect crime would be much more under control and realistic.

[Sixty]

9 minutes ago, Lop said:

I don't think the crime rates are too high; I think the quality and portrayal are horrendous.

People fundamentally misunderstand why people commit crimes or what a "gang" actually is and how it feels like to depend on crime for a living.

 

I've read things like "gangbangers aren't smart, otherwise they'd be in college and not in a gang" in a roleplay guide.

 

The problem is that people portray criminals as these always-aggressive people who think crime is cool and are part of this in-group of criminals for fun.

Someone should tell them that being a criminal, even a gang member or a serial white collar criminal, is first and foremost a person. With friends, hobbies, fun, emotions, anxiety, fears; and in 99% of cases, they don't consider themselves bad people. They just have a different kind of job in their eyes. They want to break out of the constant anxiety and fear of being caught, but are dragged back into it regularly.

If everyone understood this better, we'd be in a much better place lol 👏

[bonk]

Bumping this.

 

From what I have heard administrators have been told to be less strict on issuing punishments for people shooting in broad daylight and in public (depending on the area). I'd like for an admin or somebody to confirm my suspicions. If that's the case then there is no reason to keep this suggestion going, happy to have it closed.

[Narco]

I live in California and personally know that broad day shootings are the norm. People are RARELY killed at night time and if they are, it's usually a personal gang hit / bumping into another gang member at the club that has personal beef with you, or other gang members / a random bump in between gang members. I could link you to hundreds of news articles which would support this. The fact of the matter is that shootings can happen at any moment. Specifically between gang members which is far too common during these ages in California and usually done by the younger kids. Highly in support of this due to the fact that a shooting can happen anywhere at any time, obviously no gang member is going to bring a gun into a court house or near a police department unless they have a severely low IQ. No gang member goes "Hey its day time, so I'm not gonna shootcha right now!" LOL.. 

 

/Supported!

[Beholder]

Context is everything. A rival gang member in a convenience store with massive windows in broad daylight at high noon? Bad. Waiting for them to go to a more private area and then shooting them at high noon? Probably fine. "More private" doesn't need to be dark and scary alley. Just can't be a convenient store. Also the reason matters too. Shooting somebody in "broad daylight in front of a cctv" because youre rival gang members? Kinda poor. Shoot them because they tried to kill you previously? Probably fine. 

 

I think the main point of these rules is to discourage people from shooting areas like Vinewood and Rockford Hills where gangland style shootings just objectively don't occur as often as they do in Davis.

 

The "my criminal isn't that smart" is definitely a weak argument, as most criminals have the basic instinct of "don't get caught." I think even "stupid" criminals can take a moment to think "Should I should this guy at high noon outside of a bank?" And probably come to the conclusion that they can wait a little bit until the area is a little more fitting.

 

I think this rule could use some tweaking and different wording for sure, but the "why did you shoot in daylight / on cctv" argument is solid in some situations.

[khadijeh.]

This has been amended some time ago, in-character risk is purely in-character and we don't look at "broad daylight" anymore unless there are other concerns to match and a general lack of usage of the cranium in a situation.