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Updating rules and perception around shooting in public areas / daylight / or near cameras


bonk

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We can all link threads of people mowing down other factions within player complaints and the argument of "This is a lively place IRL, why do such an act in Los Santos" is never brought up whatsoever. If it wasn't as shakey as a topic everyone is making it out to be, then this thread wouldn't be needed. 

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51 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

Then the rule remains. As it is, crime is already wildly out of control, to the point that there are more violent crimes happening daily in los Santos than the top five most dangerous nations combined. That is a LOT of crime, amidst a very small population.

Where are you basing this statistic?

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16 minutes ago, varrio bangin said:

If somebody murders someone in front of a camera, then they should face the IC consequences for said action. I don't like bringing OOC shit to a reckless IC situation such as that. It gives the authorities more RP, in the end. 

If somebody murders someone in front of a live crowd (3+ people), then I believe it should be handled ICly. If a dude just shot somebody in front of a bunch of witnesses, why not just bring it to the authorities and work off of that?

Me just being me, if my character just got his head blown off with three or more people witnessing it, I'd let it play out. More than not, I'm assuming, people would whether /report for a 1 hour admin sit about magical people in the distance. Los Santos is based off Los Angeles, if we're talking realistic traffic then any and every shooting taken place would be broadcasted by multiple CCTVs nearby, and would have plentyful witnesses.

Speaking on admin situations, there's been two sides of it. Admins have applied the "people would be flooded all through this area" argument, and there has been times where they haven't. It's a shakey topic, and people acting as if it's not is just plain out stupid. It's not as cut and dry as people are making it out to be. Each and every shooting, you'd just have people spamming /report with the classic "Hey, this guy just shot me after I posed a threat to him. He should be prisoned, due to this spot being very lively in Los Angeles." 

People acting as if Vinewood/Hollywood is just a crime-free zone in real life is in the wrong, too. Downtown LA & Hollywood has it's own murder rate. It isn't strawberries and ice cream out there. People get murdered, slaughtered, stabbed, robbed, mugged, etc. There has to be a definite line between Los Santos & Los Angeles if every sector of Downtown LS is going to have the "this place would have tons of people walking around," argument.

Exactly.

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10 minutes ago, maramizo said:

Where are you basing this statistic?

How many violent crimes happen in LS a day? Give me a rough estimate. I can compare it to the police reports, and then we can work from there.

 

17 minutes ago, varrio bangin said:

We can all link threads of people mowing down other factions within player complaints and the argument of "This is a lively place IRL, why do such an act in Los Santos" is never brought up whatsoever. If it wasn't as shakey as a topic everyone is making it out to be, then this thread wouldn't be needed. 

Crime versus crime is something that should be treated with less strict enforcement of the rules. While the cliche is a tired one, criminals killing criminals should be encouraged and even fostered, as it regulates, and occasionally even drains criminal assets, usually by taking dangerous weapons and people out of play. That, and criminals are knowingly in the game, so to speak. They have the resources and attitudes already available to be in those conflicts, whereas civilians do not. 

 

That said, gang fights being a little more normal makes sense. The real attention is when they target someone that has no desire to participate in their war.

 

Another point is that this rule was clarified only very recently, so it was indeed, beforehand, very shaky. There is a greater certainty now that the staff have asserted that not only does the rule apply, it is being improved upon to be significantly more concrete 

6 minutes ago, bidi bidi bom bom said:

Exactly.

We simply do not have the resources to allow it. Without significant changes that the criminal community would never allow, this rule is here to stay, likely for some time.

Edited by DasFroggy
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Lol love not getting replied to after making a point with fact and reasoning. Again, it's not so much the issue of committing crime. It's the realistic portrayal of where, when, how and why. This isn't a death match server where you can run around and commit murder just because "oh this happens in real life, deal with it". That's a horrible argument. Obviously they want to uphold a different standard here where there is a balance between what is real and what is not, in the interest that everyone should have fun and not just criminals. It's not as easy as 1,2,3 presto.

 

These pretty much sum up why (at this point), there is no reason to pursue this change. I haven't seen any new additions to rule changes that would change my mind. It's just the usual, "It's IC. Deal with it. I'm not pretending people are there. It ruins my immersion" excuse to justify ignoring that we're supposed to be role playing a populated city (as established by Keane and many other admins through report conclusions) so they can just commit crime whenever they want regardless of consequences or lack of consequences.

 

https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/44612-updating-rules-and-perception-around-shooting-in-public-areas-daylight-or-near-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=431515

 

https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/44549-“why-did-you-shoot-in-broad-daylight-with-a-ton-of-cameras-present”/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-430609

 

https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/44549-“why-did-you-shoot-in-broad-daylight-with-a-ton-of-cameras-present”/?do=findComment&comment=430231

Edited by Sixty
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Just now, DasFroggy said:

Crime versus crime is something that should be treated with less strict enforcement of the rules. While the cliche is a tired one, criminals killing criminals should be encouraged and even fostered, as it regulates, and occasionally even drains criminal assets, usually by taking dangerous weapons and people out of play. That, and criminals are knowingly in the game, so to speak. They have the resources and attitudes already available to be in those conflicts, whereas civilians do not. 

Faction A's faction pulls up to Faction B's apartment housing, and engages in a brutal mass murder of six people. Faction A pulls off.

No one ever brings up "Wow, there'd be kids in that park around this time! Why shoot? It's an apartment building! People would be outside lounging around! People live in those apartments, those bullets can go through their windows and doors in real life! Do you care about those kids in those parks and apartments?"

In addition, I don't think this all should just exclude "criminal on criminal" warfare. The same arguments you can make with civilians in Downtown LS being targeted in violant crimes, the same can be made with the people in South LS. What happens in Downtown LS probably doesn't hold a FINGER to what happens in South LS. Complaining about being shot in front of a camera, when you got people mowing down tens of people in the middle of the street in broad daylight over gang politics. That's crazy.

 

I also would not bring up "reports" as a backing to your side. There's hundreds of reports of people gunning down people in broad daylight, whether it's Downtown or in the South, and admins never bringing up the argument of "Woah, it's broad daylight!" argument. The same can be said about them actually bringing it up. That's my point in all this. It's not as cut and dry as you're making it out to be. If it was, every admin would be enforcing it. People making it seem like the rest of LS should just be a greenzone because a guy murdered someone in front of a camera or 3+ people. If ANYBODY does anything that reckless inGame then it should be taken ICly in my own opinion, and I don't see why not. It gives authorities more RP, and the court system more RP. A man just murdered someone in front of a camera. Okay, he's done. A man just murdered someone with SO MANY witnesses. Why make it an admin sit, when the witnesses can just notify authorities, get the player locked up for life and then it end at that? 

 

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7 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

How many violent crimes happen in LS a day? Give me a rough estimate. I can compare it to the police reports, and then we can work from there.

I don't have any, so I don't make positive statements or proclamations regarding the nature of crime within LS. We simply don't have access to such a statistic, that's why I ask regarding as to how your statement can be anything other than an opinion.

 

Let me ask you this; if I shoot someone in an abandoned area in the desert, and someone shows up, can I /report to get that person's existence voided, since realistically people don't visit these areas? If not, then the obvious issue exists.

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1 hour ago, maramizo said:

I don't have any, so I don't make positive statements or proclamations regarding the nature of crime within LS. We simply don't have access to such a statistic, that's why I ask regarding as to how your statement can be anything other than an opinion.

 

Taking the entire population size of a thousand at most, and comparing the rate of crime between our one thousand and the crime in almost any context of other countries, and our total crime rate is ridiculously high.

 

I'm at work currently, so I can't sit down and do the math here, but once I am home I will get back with the calculations. Whether you do a side-by-side of our population to the whole of another country, or our one thousand to the crime per one thousand of theirs, it does not look good.

 

EDIT: After doing the math, and assessing the most recent record I could find, I was able to formulate a pretty comprehensive answer to this request. 

 

Per information provided by several LSPD connections, Los Santos alone has roughly one hundred calls reporting crimes each day. Let's low-ball that report and say that only five of those are violent crimes or murders. That means we have 1,852 murders from a magically stable population of 1,000 people each year, whereas Venezuela, the most dangerous nations on the planet, has a total of seventy murders per 100,000 per year.

 

Now, I'd you would like, we can compare it to cities, states... but when the body count exceeds the total of an entry country...

 

1 hour ago, maramizo said:

Let me ask you this; if I shoot someone in an abandoned area in the desert, and someone shows up, can I /report to get that person's existence voided, since realistically people don't visit these areas? If not, then the obvious issue exists.

 

Apples to oranges. The moment you pulled that trigger, you opened yourself to the consequences. A modest price to pay for interrupting the roleplay of others by force.

 

...and before you say "but isn't the other guy...literally not a factor and never would have been a factor if you had not pulled the trigger. 

 

1 hour ago, varrio bangin said:

Faction A's faction pulls up to Faction B's apartment housing, and engages in a brutal mass murder of six people. Faction A pulls off.

No one ever brings up "Wow, there'd be kids in that park around this time! Why shoot? It's an apartment building! People would be outside lounging around! People live in those apartments, those bullets can go through their windows and doors in real life! Do you care about those kids in those parks and apartments?"

In addition, I don't think this all should just exclude "criminal on criminal" warfare. The same arguments you can make with civilians in Downtown LS being targeted in violant crimes, the same can be made with the people in South LS. What happens in Downtown LS probably doesn't hold a FINGER to what happens in South LS. Complaining about being shot in front of a camera, when you got people mowing down tens of people in the middle of the street in broad daylight over gang politics. That's crazy.

 

I also would not bring up "reports" as a backing to your side. There's hundreds of reports of people gunning down people in broad daylight, whether it's Downtown or in the South, and admins never bringing up the argument of "Woah, it's broad daylight!" argument. The same can be said about them actually bringing it up. That's my point in all this. It's not as cut and dry as you're making it out to be. If it was, every admin would be enforcing it. People making it seem like the rest of LS should just be a greenzone because a guy murdered someone in front of a camera or 3+ people. If ANYBODY does anything that reckless inGame then it should be taken ICly in my own opinion, and I don't see why not. It gives authorities more RP, and the court system more RP. A man just murdered someone in front of a camera. Okay, he's done. A man just murdered someone with SO MANY witnesses. Why make it an admin sit, when the witnesses can just notify authorities, get the player locked up for life and then it end at that? 

 

Again, the is likely to be addressed with the very recent clarification of the rule, as it was explained that there is still some discussion going around to fully cement how the rule applies across the various different circumstances.

 

That said, I could still see a faction getting a pass on this, as getting an entire faction to carry out an attack requires jumping through a LOT of hoops, and typically becomes the make-or-break demonstration of whether the group can actually carry out activities in such a way that creates roleplay, as opposed to diminishing it needlessly. 

 

Again, it seems the administration has a plan to address this, so the point is moot.

Edited by DasFroggy
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My two cents here, time of the day shouldn't be relevant for these things. This is a game played by people from all over the world. Some people can only play during day time others only at night. I'd just make some areas, like main avenues at nice heighborhoods to be safe zones

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On 3/23/2021 at 4:25 PM, DasFroggy said:

That means we have 1,852 murders from a magically stable population of 1,000 people each year, whereas Venezuela, the most dangerous nations on the planet, has a total of seventy murders per 100,000 per year.

Tf u talking about? Colombia is way more dangerous than any country on the continent, even way worse than Mexico itself.

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