Updating rules and perception around shooting in public areas / daylight / or near cameras

[Yoak]

8 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

So here is how it is - you want to curb the unrealistic and meaningless distinguishment between day/night crimes? Start by curbing the unrealistic and mindless excess of crime so that a rule is not needed to keep things from becoming moreso wildly out of control.

how do you propose someone who say.. can't get on when the sun goes down, maybe due to work? How do they participate in illegal activities?

[DasFroggy]

12 minutes ago, maramizo said:

You're playing a literal shooting game complaining about people shooting.

I am playing on the GTAW heavy roleplay server. If you want shooting, GTAO is perhaps more your speed.

 

12 minutes ago, maramizo said:

if no rules are broken, admins shouldn't interfere.

Which is why it is fortunate that the rules help maintain a balanced roleplay environment. Nobody is forcing you to break the rules.

 

8 minutes ago, Yoak said:

how do you propose someone who say.. can't get on when the sun goes down, maybe due to work? How do they participate in illegal activities?

Create better disincentives against crime. That is the advantage of requiring a fraction of a prison sentence be spent IC and active - crime can still be done freely, moreso freely without the cumbersome barrier of "You can't do this in daylight in a public area" because a hard limiting rule like what we have is no longer needed. Criminals will have a genuine reason to avoid crimes that have longer sentences (and thus, having to spend one full day of their sixty day sentence instead of ten minutes of their five day sentence) but nothing will be stopping them from committing crimes wherever and whenever they want.

 

But as it is? There is simply too much crime to give it any more freedom unless criminals are willing to adopt a different, delayed disincentive for committing crimes that they will actually take seriously.

Edited March 17, 2021 by DasFroggy
Spelling

[maramizo]

1 minute ago, DasFroggy said:

I am playing on a heavy roleplay server. If you want shooting, GTAO is perhaps more your speed.

No, you're missing the point. I said that because it's a fact. You even go on to presume that I'm wrong by assuming that people will act differently if a portion of the time is required to be spent IC. It won't change a thing because it's literally GTA V. 

 

I was merely telling you a fact - the medium upon which roleplay is performed affects the sort of roleplay you're going to receive. GTA games' RP will always be of a violent nature. Gun violence is an example.

 

 

At least we both agree that the current state of affairs is unfair and has to be replaced with something else.

[DasFroggy]

15 minutes ago, maramizo said:

GTA games' RP will always be of a violent nature.

I will seek some clarification on this with another...

Edited March 17, 2021 by DasFroggy

[D-Kay]

+1

[weede]

1 hour ago, maramizo said:

The entire post is based on false premises. The server's peak has literally been at ~12 midnight as seen here (click me). Not every murder committed is a first degree murder. People get angry, people shoot. Shit happens. The idea that every murder should be "planned ahead" and that people should be punished OOC for their valid IC actions is fundamentally barring and limiting. No person should have the capacity to call me or other players an idiot and judge my IC actions as a basis of my IRL persona nor intelligence.

 

 

As seen above, however, that's not what the current state of affairs promote. IC actions have OOC results. People that commit crimes get jailed twice (as seen here) because an administrator thinks it's "not smart". The entire looting situation, and almost every single illegal act is constantly judged by administrators. This isn't targeting Moonsong directly, the post above is just an example of where the server currently stands (it genuinely just so happens that Moonsong handled both reports, but there are numerous other reports with other administrators doing the same act).

 

Administrators are here to enforce the rules, not judge my roleplay. I don't give the slightest fuck if you don't like my character, I honestly don't. I do however care if I'm breaking the rules, because that's unfair for me and all parties involved. It's incredibly humiliating to be constantly judged by administrators and have them frown down upon valid roleplay.

 

This humiliation must end. Being called an idiot by an administrator is not Moonsong's direct fault, but the fault of the underlying system that allows this form of judgement in the first place.

 

Shooting people in broad daylight is just an example.

 

I completely agree.

Some administrators blur the lines between OOC and IC themselves by thinking people in game, like the Hakeem situation, should act according to the admin's concept of rationality, especially when the action in question is performed against another player. This player walked into a crowded nightclub - not crowded in the sense there's a bunch of witnesses who can use their OOC mind and logs to identify a witness but a place crowded with drunken, drugged up dancers who are immersed in the music, with extremely dark lighting.

 

On an unrelated note, I feel like a lot of people use logs and Shadowplay to inject recollection into their character's mind to then use that. It's essentially mostly unprovable metagaming and poor portrayal.

 

In fact, on this specific report, I myself was accused of unrealistic portrayal by ordering a slashing over a 4-day old brewing beef, where the admin in question falsely believed due to admitted hearsay and assumptions that I had just been kicked out of the club and ordered someone to go in and stab them, and were not aware it was actually  more complicated than that.

 

I specifically chose the means of slashing by proxy to avoid improper escalation by shooting, as it was determined a punishment needed meted out for: My character's cousin being unfairly ejected days before in which they were insulted thoroughly, having a gun pulled on me in the resulting argument in the hallway of the club in question, and several refusals to apologise.

 

Hakeem, who I sent in to non-lethally slash a person for legitimate reasons, ended up stabbing the person and being shot by their sister from above entirely due to their character's incompetency.

They could have just scrolled the knife, stabbed the player then ran out.

Instead, they chose to roleplay the withdrawing and stabbing of the player in question then roleplay their wounds thoroughly.

 

This person was jailed for powergame, for not 'fearing' the fact it was a populated club and for 'powergaming' the stabbing, even when it was a surprise attack and they utilised /mes instead of quite validly taking the blade out without roleplay and using it as many people do, as permitted by the asspulling exemptions in the rules - these things happens so fast in real life. My counter-argument is that the fact it was a populated club would bloody HELP them! If it wasn't for the dynamism of roleplay and the other player's incredibly unlikely shooting by virtue of coincidental tactical positioning and opportunity, they could easily have escaped without due consequence.

 

Hakeem survived this, and the stabbing victim survived this. The report was initially on PD for MG, but the title was forcibly changed to Hakeem [3] against the will of the reporter who even wanted it closed and the focus shifted entirely. Some people use their power to enforce their questionable opinions onto others, which are not shared by said others.

 

Some admins think people act irrationally and spontaneously OOCly when in fact it's IC and should be treated as such. The rookie criminals who poorly plan or execute crimes during their commission are greater roleplayers than those who game the easily gameable system by using their OOC intelligence and awareness.

 

Shooting/attacking people in broad daylight happens all the time.

People pull guns and shoot or knives and stab on busy streets all the time.

Nightclub slashings and stabbings happen all the time.

 

These people are usually caught too, as should happen IC. Nobody should be punished for ICly performing a bad move, especially when they have valid reason but only poor execution.

Edited March 17, 2021 by weede

[Yoak]

32 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

Create better disincentives against crime. That is the advantage of requiring a fraction of a prison sentence be spent IC and active

suggestion has been passed and forwarded.

 

 

[DasFroggy]

Just now, Yoak said:

suggestion has been passed and forwarded.

 

 

Hopefully it will be implemented in such a way that genuinely discourages and realistically limits criminal activities. It will be one step closer to finally shrugging off restrictive OOC barriers for crime.

 

I completely agree that anyone should be free to commit a crime anywhere, and that the greatest solution is simply to ensure there are possible consequences that people will want to avoid.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

1 hour ago, weede said:

 

I completely agree.

Some administrators blur the lines between OOC and IC themselves by thinking people in game, like the Hakeem situation, should act according to the admin's concept of rationality, especially when the action in question is performed against another player. This player walked into a crowded nightclub - not crowded in the sense there's a bunch of witnesses who can use their OOC mind and logs to identify a witness but a place crowded with drunken, drugged up dancers who are immersed in the music, with extremely dark lighting.

 

On an unrelated note, I feel like a lot of people use logs and Shadowplay to inject recollection into their character's mind to then use that. It's essentially mostly unprovable metagaming and poor portrayal.

 

In fact, on this specific report, I myself was accused of unrealistic portrayal by ordering a slashing over a 4-day old brewing beef, where the admin in question falsely believed due to admitted hearsay and assumptions that I had just been kicked out of the club and ordered someone to go in and stab them, and were not aware it was actually  more complicated than that.

 

I specifically chose the means of slashing by proxy to avoid improper escalation by shooting, as it was determined a punishment needed meted out for: My character's cousin being unfairly ejected days before in which they were insulted thoroughly, having a gun pulled on me in the resulting argument in the hallway of the club in question, and several refusals to apologise.

 

Hakeem, who I sent in to non-lethally slash a person for legitimate reasons, ended up stabbing the person and being shot by their sister from above entirely due to their character's incompetency.

They could have just scrolled the knife, stabbed the player then ran out.

Instead, they chose to roleplay the withdrawing and stabbing of the player in question then roleplay their wounds thoroughly.

 

This person was jailed for powergame, for not 'fearing' the fact it was a populated club and for 'powergaming' the stabbing, even when it was a surprise attack and they utilised /mes instead of quite validly taking the blade out without roleplay and using it as many people do, as permitted by the asspulling exemptions in the rules - these things happens so fast in real life. My counter-argument is that the fact it was a populated club would bloody HELP them! If it wasn't for the dynamism of roleplay and the other player's incredibly unlikely shooting by virtue of coincidental tactical positioning and opportunity, they could easily have escaped without due consequence.

 

Hakeem survived this, and the stabbing victim survived this. The report was initially on PD for MG, but the title was forcibly changed to Hakeem [3] against the will of the reporter who even wanted it closed and the focus shifted entirely. Some people use their power to enforce their questionable opinions onto others, which are not shared by said others.

 

Some admins think people act irrationally and spontaneously OOCly when in fact it's IC and should be treated as such. The rookie criminals who poorly plan or execute crimes during their commission are greater roleplayers than those who game the easily gameable system by using their OOC intelligence and awareness.

 

Shooting/attacking people in broad daylight happens all the time.

People pull guns and shoot or knives and stab on busy streets all the time.

Nightclub slashings and stabbings happen all the time.

 

These people are usually caught too, as should happen IC. Nobody should be punished for ICly performing a bad move, especially when they have valid reason but only poor execution.

Fully agreeing with this. People (and especially admins) need to realize that most of criminals aren't really smart. Gang crimes are one of the most reckless crimes to ever happen (see for example flocking, left Pop Smoke dead even though it was meant to simply be a lick, not a homicide and yes it happened in fucking Hollywood).  Most gangbangers in LA won't think twice before pulling the trigger, the entire culture is based around bragging about catching bodies and claiming that you're ready to smoke somebody 24/7, whether you like that or not, this is simply the truth. The management should put up some more clarified rules around it and finally remove the entire admin discretion bullshit.

Edited March 17, 2021 by i dont wanna od in LA
added some more factual info

[bonk]

5 hours ago, Torlo said:

I find it awfully ironic how people are citing LA crime rates as a reason to commit crime 24/7, rob and kill constantly because well "My character is a criminal!".  It's gotten to a point where living in LS is like living in Somalia, if you're alone not near your car, you're never safe. In LA you could just as easily sit on the pier for hours by yourself and never even consider being kidnapped by two masked men so they can take your phone and 600 dollars, but here it happens all the time becuase people think rping a criminal means being a crime bot who has no other motivation other than to commit because that's why they exist. 

 

That's breaking the rules— report them. Why does your one shitty experience have to punish the 90% of the illegal role play community that puts a huge amount of time role playing and developing their characters?

 

I could easily say the same about legal role players, being a legal role player I've had some of the most sub par role play dealing with legal role players that I have seen on this server, but you don't see me witch-hunting legal role players at every given opportunity because of a suggestion that will merely benefit their scene.

 

Plus, with nearly 1000 hours on this server I think I've been robbed twice, maybe it's just you?