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“Why did you shoot in broad daylight with a ton of cameras present?”


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14 hours ago, Naeno said:

Many criminals aren't exactly the brightest, especially when speaking about low level street gangbangers. Killing in daylight and with cameras surrounding the area happen far too often. In fact, I'd argue it's actually difficult to commit a shooting in modern day LA without some sort of camera picking up either the shooting itself or the escape (be it through traffic cams or even just someone on their phone). I don't really see too much of an issue with committed crimes on the server following this (outside of some egregious examples). If there are cameras there is more of a risk that your character will get caught and will have to pay the consequences, that should be the fear factor. I believe it's also unfair to dictate what crimes can and cannot be committed just because the time of the day. It's important to remember that many players are only capable of logging on during a certain time frame. Some may only be able to play while the server is daytime, and others may only play during the server's nighttime. Crime doesn't strictly follow a time schedule. 

 

However, its no secret that crime on GTAW is much higher for the size of the city and its player population than most real life cities. All sorts of crime are exaggerated and happen far more often than they would realistically. The issue with letting a player kill another player unprovoked is that everyone else will want to be able to do the same. While I do understand and have met various characters who have had the proper development to make you understand that they will kill on a whim, it's still a can of worms that is probably best not opened. Killings are already prominent enough and letting just about anyone kill another player with no real reasoning is probably something that's best left unexplored. 

I agree. People will shoot anyone anywhere. Someone PK'd someone at my character's business in Rockford Hills just over a week ago or less, maybe. It's entirely unrealistic to have crime occur in high waves on World. People are seen to be treating non-violent areas of San Andreas like South Central and it is starting to look like The Purge.

 

But, regarding the element of the thread and purpose of it; I agree with OP. Crime don't care what time of day it is.

 

 

EDIT: Not everyone is online when the server hits night time, some people are only free to play on the daytime hours.

 

My friend from New Zealand is an example of this.

 

It would be unwise to limit someone's RP to the server's time-zone, just because of their chosen sector of roleplay.

Edited by Wynters
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50 minutes ago, Wynters said:

I agree. People will shoot anyone anywhere. Someone PK'd someone at my character's business in Rockford Hills just over a week ago or less, maybe. It's entirely unrealistic to have crime occur in high waves on World. People are seen to be treating non-violent areas of San Andreas like South Central and it is starting to look like The Purge.

 

But, regarding the element of the thread and purpose of it; I agree with OP. Crime don't care what time of day it is.

 

 

EDIT: Not everyone is online when the server hits night time, some people are only free to play on the daytime hours.

 

My friend from New Zealand is an example of this.

 

It would be unwise to limit someone's RP to the server's time-zone, just because of their chosen sector of roleplay.

 

 

While I totally understand and agree your point about people living in timezones playing on the server being restricted to always be RPing during certain times of day. This does not excuse not roleplaying according to the actual time. What do you want to do, someone says "Good morning" but because for you OOCly it's not morning you're not supposed to behave ICly as if it is? I know it's an exaggerated example, but it's just how it is. You just have to go with the cards you're dealt with. What's next, people don't want to roleplay the temperature during the night because they're always annoyed they're forced to play at night when it's colder and they want to be able to wear certain pieces of clothing which would be unrealistic when it's too cold? Just roleplay realistically to your environment, it's not that big of a deal. There's always ways to do certain things in realistic ways. Maybe ask someone else to commit said crime for you, maybe plan it better. 

 

What I would propose to combat all the complaints brought up in this thread, along with the arguments of people seemingly being adamant to wanting to roleplay "unintelligent criminals" is to perhaps change the time every three months on the server. Right now it's following a European timezone pretty much as far as I'm aware. Maybe 3months from now, it can follow the NA timezone. Maybe three months after that, oceanic timezone. And we can cycle through the timezones every few months to give everyone a fair chance to roleplay during the day, the night, and the morning. I would feel like it's a good compromise as opposed to letting people decide themselves what they feel like RPing at any given time just because their OOC timezone/situation conflicts with the server time. 

Edited by Martyn
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A lot of this thread seems to be dissing administrators and calling them ignorant.

 

While I understand the intent and the sentiment of people's opinions, it's not like we make decisions without player involvement. If you truly believe what you did was in line with your character- their background, tendencies, etc. That should be expressed in the report or to the handling admin. However, this is a video game and the fact is, most people don't value their characters life as much as their own. That is why admins often have to step in and take action because murder is too common for the server to be representative of real life, like it's supposed to be.

 

Edit: Hi, my name's Jess and I've done illegal roleplay. 🙂 The notion that admins are against illegal roleplay is ridiculous.

Edited by jesscatXD
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The problem isn't daylight, it's illegal roleplay. Some members of this community see this server as a safe-space and don't like to see others roleplaying what they enjoy. Every single murder is nitpicked and some admin interventions and decisions make zero sense, be it daylight or other circumstances.

 

1 hour ago, jesscatXD said:

A lot of this thread seems to be dissing administrators and calling them ignorant.

Because most of the people who rush to take these reports are ignorant and never roleplayed anything illegal in their lives and despise illegal roleplay. They simply don't know how half of this works, yet hurry to make decisions based on their personal opinions or "crime bad", pandering to legal roleplayers 90% of time.

 

1 hour ago, jesscatXD said:

While I understand the intent and the sentiment of people's opinions, it's not like we make decisions without player involvement. If you truly believe what you did was in line with your character- their background, tendencies, etc. That should be expressed in the report or to the handling admin. However, this is a video game and the fact is, most people don't value their characters life as much as their own. That is why admins often have to step in and take action because murder is too common for the server to be representative of real life, like it's supposed to be.

Except these certain few admins hardly ever listen and can't be reasoned with. I've been met with incredible toxicity for no reason.

People who get killed don't value their lives, again, it's an IC problem, they will get killed. More CKs would solve this and give people a real reason to fear, but that's another subject. What you're admitting here is that you're trying to stop people roleplaying killing other people legitimately, instead of punishing people who don't roleplay fear, for example while interacting with a mob.

Murder being common an IC issue, fight crime ICly. Sure, punish people when rules are REALLY broken, but what you guys are doing here is cracking down on every single murder you can find, picking out the stupidest details and punishing people for IC mistakes they've made. Not everyone's a professional Agent 47 kind of character, let the cops do some investigative roleplay too.

 

17 hours ago, Moonsong said:

... but so that the crime that does happen is realistic and well-thought out and if anything, the rules still require further tightening because players aren't behaving responsibly. We want it to be fun for everyone, not just the criminal roleplayers.

"Crime that does happen is realistic and well-thought" is an oxymoron, half of the crime that happens realistically isn't well-thought and half of the criminals on the street aren't well-thinking individuals. Hell, they'd be in college if they were, not killing each other. But it just sounds like that's exactly what you want, destroy illegal roleplay in its entirety. So far I've got an impression that you would find the smallest irrelevant detail to contest the most perfect crime ever roleplayed, just to void it and ajail someone. May I ask what constitutes a well-thought crime for you?

 

 

 

Last month I murdered someone in front of a garage, in a dark alley, covered with CCTV, in front of two witnesses, without wearing a mask.

The kill was well-thought, risks were assessed, although time was ticking. It was realistic and quality of roleplay hasn't been infringed, nobody's immersion has been broken, so on. What happened is that the victim was mad over dying and reported.

 

The first problem was reasoning, as the target blatantly lied that it was deathmatch. Fine, it wasn't, move on. Then the admin picked non-fear argument, since I did it despite there being CCTV. I hadn't even seen the CCTV before he pointed it out for me. Then it was that there were two witnesses, who were each minding their own business, hardly even looking. Then it was that I wasn't wearing a mask, even though my character was wearing a baseball cap tilted down and it was dark. Then it was that it was an open business, despite it being in front of one and there being zero customers, and I've seen this happen earlier without an issue too. Then somehow I get told I powergamed too??? All so the salty legal RPer who thought they were invincible would get unPKed.

If that's not nitpicking, I don't know what is. Admin discretion means inconsistency in standard, subjective judgement and heavy bias, it shouldn't be a thing and rules should instead be elaborated better.

 

Thankfully, it was unvoided by the management, although my ajail remains somehow because "I wasn't wearing a mask" and that's still non-fear somehow, despite hardly anyone ever masking themselves like an IRA terrorist when doing kills in real life. Hell, I'd argue that wearing a mask every single time you commit a crime is play2win and low standard roleplay.

 

What also happened is that the admin deleted my casings and the body, totally ruining the roleplay for the cops and the progress of their investigation. I'm now struggling to help the cops through Discord and even agreeing for them to roleplay ghost casings and the body and what not so the roleplay can go on. The most likely outcome here is that cops won't be able to do work with what they have and my character won't take IC consequences for his IC actions because someone thought about fucking with roleplay OOCly for zero reason.

 

Example of some hits, as realistic as they can get:

 

 

 

 

The "GTAW city is big, there would realistically be more witnesses" doesn't stand, NPCs can't be RPed for other situations, you can't pull them out in your favor to argue this either.

 

tl;dr don't intervene at any cost if rules haven't broken, don't make up shit to ruin someone else's completely legitimate experience just because you hate criminals or Serbs IRL, let IC stay IC

Edited by Oakwood
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We have rules in place for a reason, to maintain a fair and balanced environment which the majority of people can enjoy. If we let everyone do what they want, when they want it's going to stop being fun very quickly. It's not very fun for people if they're constantly being shot outside cafe's, clubs or wherever simply for giving an ill-tempered gang-banger the middle finger (just an example). I'm sure quite a few of the players trying to argue in favour of "IC is IC" would be the first to complain to administrators if the tables were turned and they were the ones eating bullets in unrealistic assassinations. Unfortunately I see this all too often and if you don't see a problem with that then I'm afraid, that's on you.

 

That said, I don't think we're going to get anything else useful out of this thread as it seems to be a catalyst for players complaining about admins and not getting to do as they please. So I'll be locking this thread. I would like to thank those of you who contributed positively though, some points were quite reasonable and interesting to read.

 

Edited by Moonsong
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