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“Why did you shoot in broad daylight with a ton of cameras present?”


bonk

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53 minutes ago, Sixty said:

I can only log on late late night server hours due to work and my time zone. I don’t get to experience anything in terms of many social businesses that are mainly open during prime time / peak server hours. All these businesses that would suit my character’s RP and work habits. I miss out on a lot of jobs that would be great for my character, but that’s just the way it is. You don’t see me sitting here pleading to change the server time zone to match the west coast of the US (which would be more realistic being that we’re RP’ing there), but it wouldn’t suit a majority of players. Sometimes yeah, you have to deal with the cards you are dealt.

 

What you need to do is re-read what you said back to yourself, with an open mind of course, and acknowledge what you said was totally absurd.

 

Sure, your character could benefit going to the beach at day, have a cocktail there, go hiking. But is it something that revolves heavily around your entire character? Somebody wanting to role play a criminal character simply cannot role play the whole premise and basis of their character because they are constrained by work?

 

You do not need to role play going to the beach, it does not last on your long term character development. A homicide, robbery, etc do.

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37 minutes ago, Blowin' Hollows said:

 

What you need to do is re-read what you said back to yourself, with an open mind of course, and acknowledge what you said was totally absurd.

 

Sure, your character could benefit going to the beach at day, have a cocktail there, go hiking. But is it something that revolves heavily around your entire character? Somebody wanting to role play a criminal character simply cannot role play the whole premise and basis of their character because they are constrained by work?

 

You do not need to role play going to the beach, it does not last on your long term character development. A homicide, robbery, etc do.

I think you need to go back and re-read what I said. My current character is heavily legal sided, who largely would benefit from the opportunities afforded during prime time / peak server hours. It largely affects my character development. Just because it’s on the legal side, doesn’t mean it’s any less important. Owning or working at a business during peak hours versus non-peak hours offers drastically different experiences and does in fact, contribute to my character development. Don’t dumb down my version of character development because it doesn’t fit into your own box of role play. I don’t get to experience a lot of what is important to my character because of the time zone I am in and the work hours I have. What am I to do? Gotta roll with it. 
 

In your own words:

 

“Somebody wanting to role play a character simply cannot role play the whole premise and basis of their character because they are constrained by work?”

 

This is exactly the issue. Whether or not you think it’s important is irrelevant. It’s important to my character and their development. Should they change the entire server’s time zone because of it? No. You simply have to deal with what you got. You can’t please everyone. Sadly, that’s the reality of it.

Edited by Sixty
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5 minutes ago, Sixty said:

I think you need to go back and re-read what I said. My current character is heavily legal sided, who largely would benefit from the opportunities afforded during prime time / peak server hours. It largely affects my character development. Just because it’s on the legal side, doesn’t mean it’s any less important. Owning or working at a business during peak hours versus non-peak hours offers drastically different experiences and does in fact, contribute to my character development. Don’t dumb down my version of character development because it doesn’t fit into your own box of role play. I don’t get to experience a lot of what is important to my character because of the time zone I am in and the work hours I have. What am I to do? Gotta roll with it. 
 

In your own words:

 

“Somebody wanting to role play a character simply cannot role play the whole premise and basis of their character because they are constrained by work?”

 

This is exactly the issue. Whether or not you think it’s important is irrelevant. It’s important to my character and their development. Should they change the entire server’s time zone because of it? No. You simply have to deal with what you got. That’s the reality of it.

Though, you’re not limited. That’s my point. Night life is arguably bigger than day life so your point is null, your legal character still has a lot to do when you’re able to play.

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15 minutes ago, Blowin' Hollows said:

Though, you’re not limited. That’s my point. Night life is arguably bigger than day life so your point is null, your legal character still has a lot to do when you’re able to play.

From 3AM EST time (I’m 5 hours behind server time so that’s 8AM server time) and later into the early morning? I beg to differ. Hardly anything is open and half the people online aren’t even outside or going anywhere. I’m severely limited in my options. I’ve adapted and made best with what I’ve got. 
 

Your request doesn’t make any more sense than mine does asking for a server time to match the west coast of the US. Someone is going to be limited in some aspect. Can’t please everyone. What you’re asking for is for this server to let you justify crime whenever you feel like it with no repercussions just because your time zone only lets you play during the day. YOU may follow the rules and use sound judgment, but many won’t, if they change that rule. Sorry, can’t get behind it. Best of luck man. No hard feelings. 

Edited by Sixty
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Personally I don't mind this as long as the roleplay itself is good but the way I see it, if you started allowing this kind of roleplay more then players would "roleplay" these actions more often to a point where it'd lower the overall quality of such roleplay.  Some players, not all, will look for the path of least resistance OOCly and just attack people with no regard for how its roleplayed and this would encourage it if admins were less lenient, regardless of whether they do it for a good reason or not.

 

I imagine some of the admins don't see the problem with the roleplay personally but likely have to act accordingly to keep the above from happening.

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5 hours ago, Ink said:

I find the point is less whether or not it's possible for crime to happen in "broad daylight" or "with cameras present" -- obviously we know that the real world is stranger than fiction. The big difference, however, is the level of consequences. In real life when some piece of shit in human shape comes up and kills two police officers in a car, that will be with him for the rest of his life, and if/when he's caught he will find the end of his life at the hands of police, behinds bars, or in a chair. 

 

What we can't replicate on this server is the prevalence of those sources (that video OP posted would have had to come from one of the players involved because no building around would be "just recording", and there's a whole question of metagame there). What we can't replicate is the amount of witnesses that would be around who could lend crucial evidence to investigators. What we can't replicate is the amount of evidence that your average crime scene has on it.  We can't replicate the rarity--in GTA:W we have murders happening multiple times every single hour whereas in real life a murder in a city is a big deal (even if still a bit common). We can't replicate the investigative power of the PD and FBI because in real life one murder can easily have a whole detective detail focused on it, on GTA:W we have a much smaller and much busier PD where they're overloaded with just the amount of NEW CRIME happening, much less all the bullshit shit-tier nonsensical "stupid criminal" RP happening throughout the week.

 

And most importantly, what we don't replicate is the consequences. If your character who is a "stupid criminal" who killed someone in the "heat of the moment" gets caught, you're probably looking at a few OOC days in jail, which even ICly are just roleplayed as a matter of months at worst. Then your character's back out on the streets just a few months older, with a contact book full of new prison buddies, and goes right back to doing the same exact things like nothing happened.

 

It's sort of the same argument we get when people go "why can't we RP terrorists or school shooters, it happens all the time!" "Why is it unrealistic for my character to kill a person over something stupid, here are news videos and footage of real life murders done over very stupid things!" It's a matter of OOC courtesy and what's fun to roleplay for people. It's not fun for someone to come up and kill your character for no reason because we're a heavy RP server and there's not much to RP around it. Even in real life we don't even know how to respond to these acts of senseless tragedy because there's no reason besides "that person was sick." On GTA:W, it feels like more than 50% of characters are "sick" so why not just go full realism and let everyone just go around murdering everyone. I mean, the lack of any real consequences can be taken ICly, too, so why not? Why don't all the criminals on the server just create a mega-gang together and rove the city murdering every police officer they see, robbing every civilians, and turning this city into Mad Max?

 

Sure, you can say that's a slippery slope fallacy, but at the end of the day that's what people are pushing towards when they want to ignore these seemingly silly OOC guidelines we put on criminal activity. We put these OOC guidelines around it because we're trying to OOCly fake this world having consequences and complexity even while it's either A) physically impossible or B) just not fun.

 

If we made it so that a convicted murder charge got your character permanent life in prison, I'd be much more willing to let people "make heat of the moment" decisions and to commit seemingly senseless murders in "broad daylight" because then there'd be some actual consequences. If we made it so people getting killed by police officers because they pulled a gun on them or tried a suicidal shootout with the police was an automatic CK, I'd be much more supportive of all these "stupid criminals" doing as stupid criminals do.

 

Stupid criminals in real life (that's most of the kind of criminals people RP on this server) end up in prison for 10 years. 20 years. Life. Death row. On GTA:W they get small slaps on the wrist and it's clearly making it so most of them RP very little fear of consequences to any of their actions. Why not pick a crazy fight? If you get smoked it's just a PK. Why not try to rob civilians who have PF guns? You can always scream "RP gun fear" because you drew first, and complain about "stalling" when your broad daylight public robbery doesn't go your way. Why not kill the cop who pulls up because of your crime, there'll be no IC evidence left behind and it'll give you a head start on running, and it's not like you'll get in that much more trouble for it--just another couple OOC days in jail (and a few IC months, lol) if you get caught.

This!!! Real consequences. Let us make it like this - you kill stupidly, you get caught. Your character will be in prison for life, aka no way to get out. Now the criminal boys will go - NO!!! Seven OOC days are fine. Is that realistic for murdering someone? No, it aint. 

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This is the same type of argument as "Lets not make deathmatching a rule, some people in real life decide to go on killing sprees with little to no reason too". I'm sorry, but this is a video game in which we try to make a pleasant experience for everyone in the community. Not just your gun toting, serial killer "illegal" bad boy character who decides to shoot people in broad day light in front of cameras just because some people in real life also decided to do that. Without regulations, you have chaos. The police does not have the same time nor tools to prevent or act upon these crimes as effective as they do in real life. Therefore OOC regulations and rules have to be in place to at least attempt to reenact the same amount of realism you would see on a day to day basis in a city equivalent to Los Santos. If we don't have these rules in place, it would just happen far too often and it would not be a very immersive city anymore but it would be Gotham City roleplay. 

Edited by Martyn
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This is the same issue with Official gang members being able to commit crime in their local hoods. Many times, admins will say, "There are cameras around, you wouldn't do that".

 

The problem with this argument, is that in neighborhoods where gang activity is rampant, the locals are more prone to not snitch because they wake up everyday to these gang members. They see these gang members everyday, so speaking up could put them in danger.

 

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Broad daylight doesn't make sense because we have people playing on this server who are from the US, Australia and other countries that are like six to seven hours behind server time in some cases. What makes sense, however, is when people point out the location where gun crime takes place. In real life America people DO get gunned down in the middle of a street, but it's not like it happens right there EVERYDAY in the middle of the main street of a city like it's 1980s Mexico or a Brazilian favela.

It's usually the location that doesn't make sense, because certain people do not understand the core rule of Los Santos =/= a ghost town. It has been said many times that a lack of player activity doesn't mean you're in an empty street and you can do whatever. If you're outside of Suburban in Hawick and you can gun someone down then you can of course go for it (as long as you RP it well), but the thing is that if everyone went by this rule, we'd see people getting clapped in the middle of a street everyday.

This is a roleplay server after all and we can't just have people killing each other in the middle of the street because it would feel like a DM server or like we're in a Mexican cartel war.

I agree that in certain situations you'd not think twice about clapping someone in the middle of a street if you could mask up, there were no cops around and you had a getaway car. Sometimes you have a witness to dispose of or someone has been causing you problems for way too long to let a chance slip by, so you gotta do what you gotta do. IMO this whole "broad daylight, middle of the street" thing became a thing because people couldn't get their heads out of their asses and think twice in situations which did not require immediate action, so they just borderline DM-ed people in places like Mirror Park or Hawick because "lol no players around wdym you dumbfuck admin".

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