Flipping.

[Mahitto]

1 hour ago, mj2002 said:

As I explained before, this would encourage dealerships to trade between each other in order to get rid of cars that don't really work for their dealership's background. This way, they can keep buying what people have to trade in

 

That wouldn't work in practice, though. It's highly likely that the price a dealership gets on a car won't be agreed upon by another. Also, dealerships will look to make a profit from these trades too, as they won't always have something of equal value to trade back, which means they'll add their own markup, and the second dealership will as well, and it will only affect the final customer negatively with a much more inflated price. It's nice in theory, though.

[mj2002]

1 hour ago, Mahitto said:

 

That wouldn't work in practice, though. It's highly likely that the price a dealership gets on a car won't be agreed upon by another. Also, dealerships will look to make a profit from these trades too, as they won't always have something of equal value to trade back, which means they'll add their own markup, and the second dealership will as well, and it will only affect the final customer negatively with a much more inflated price. It's nice in theory, though.

 

It works in practice as well, for as long as those who roleplay dealerships aren't out to squeeze every single dollar out of every transaction they make. Its not all about money. With dealerships, you have so much room to play with, financially, make sure to use it!

[Solomons]

Dealerships shouldn't be limited to any sort of specific class or type of vehicle. What? I've seen plenty of small chain dealerships that sell anything from a piece of crap junker all the way up to a luxury SUV or vintage classic muscle car. Geographic location shouldn't matter either. If that's what is open during the time a player is online, that's what they'll go to. People's choices shouldn't be limited to specific dealers based on what they own because now you're limiting people via time zones and when they play. No thank you.

 

Mobile phone dealerships should be against the rules, period. It's poor portrayal in most cases, let's be real. How many of them find a vacant lot they don't own and spawn all their cars during the times they are buying and selling? Rhetorical question. They don't. It would be illegal to set up shop in a lot you don't own. They abuse the /vpark and /vget when buying and selling. This shouldn't be up for discussion. It's a crap portrayal and basically ignores the standards set in place for legitimate dealerships. Right now its blatant money printing without being held accountable for character portrayal, since you don't have to apply for a business, business location to store the cars and the other standards legitimate dealerships are expected to uphold. You really want to sell cars for the RP? Apply the right way and get yourself a dealership.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Solomons

[Hawken]

24 minutes ago, Mindbag said:

Dealerships shouldn't be limited to any sort of specific class or type of vehicle. What? I've seen plenty of small chain dealerships that sell anything from a piece of crap junker all the way up to a luxury SUV or vintage classic muscle car. Geographic location shouldn't matter either. If that's what is open during the time a player is online, that's what they'll go to. People's choices shouldn't be limited to specific dealers based on what they own because now you're limiting people via time zones and when they play. No thank you.

 

Mobile phone dealerships should be against the rules, period. It's poor portrayal in most cases, let's be real. How many of them find a vacant lot they don't own and spawn all their cars during the times they are buying and selling? Rhetorical question. They don't. It would be illegal to set up shop in a lot you don't own. They abuse the /vpark and /vget when buying and selling. This shouldn't be up for discussion. It's a crap portrayal and basically ignores the standards set in place for legitimate dealerships. Right now its blatant money printing without being held accountable for character portrayal, since you don't have to apply for a business, business location to store the cars and the other standards legitimate dealerships are expected to uphold. You really want to sell cars for the RP? Apply the right way and get yourself a dealership.

 

I disagree, poor portrayl go ahead (e.g. ones which you see posting ads with 20 cars in everyday etc) but if someone has the LAND to store a couple cars and sells them every once and a while for a profit why should that not be allowed? How do you tell the difference between a "mobile phone dealership" and a player just trying to sell a few of theirs car privately on the server? Putting things in place to prevent people operating at the same level as a actual dealership just with extremely bad portrayl should be stopped but when you've got people at garages flipping the occasional car etc I don't see the problem.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Hawken/Moscropp

[Mahitto]

2 hours ago, Hawken/Moscropp said:

 

I disagree, poor portrayl go ahead (e.g. ones which you see posting ads with 20 cars in everyday etc) but if someone has the LAND to store a couple cars and sells them every once and a while for a profit why should that not be allowed? How do you tell the difference between a "mobile phone dealership" and a player just trying to sell a few of theirs car privately on the server? Putting things in place to prevent people operating at the same level as a actual dealership just with extremely bad portrayl should be stopped but when you've got people at garages flipping the occasional car etc I don't see the problem.

 

It shouldn't be allowed because in 99.99% percent of the cases, the people who are doing it unoficially are just doing it for cash and not the role-play. I've seen it numerous times, over and over again, starting a long while ago and still ongoing, and none of them did it for anything else except for a quick buck.

• The cars aren't really stored anywhere, they just /vp and /vg them when needed. Otherwise it'd be super obvious that there are 25 cars parked around a random house or even worse, an apartment building.
• These people don't really have any realistic source for their money. They just magically have $500,000 to spend on 20 cars, which is extremely unrealistic.
• There's no role-play when buying or selling. They're always checking the "papers", then signing the "papers" and exchanging "papers". Nothing more than that. Papers that appear out of nowhere and for literally 0 reason.
• There's no character development leading up to them getting into such a field of work.
• Lots of these characters are simply poorly portrayed. I've had someone the other day drive up to me and right from the car say "eh, these are hard to sell" and drive off. They then continued to put up 1000-characted /ads and were later in prison for evading. That's not an isolated incident.

And there's much, much more. No, it's not realistic. Sure, it can be, but that 1 out of 1000 case is not good enough to justify something like this.

 

The thing with "official" dealerships is that they have the character portrayal, passion, and effort to back up their decision to go into such business. If you find issues with what or how they do? Report them. They have much more to lose and a random with $500k in cars and more of an incentive to not mess up.

 

Although there are some dealerships with purely horrendous role-play, who sell anything from dirt bikes to sports bikes, classics to sports cars and junkboxes, RVs and literally helicopters and planes. So there clearly has to be a major revamp somewhere.

[Solomons]

12 hours ago, Hawken/Moscropp said:

when you've got people at garages flipping the occasional car etc I don't see the problem.

The occasional car? The garage that advertises in the /ads doesn't flip the "occasional" car, it's 10-15+ at a time. That's actively flipping. As its been said before, realistically you're not allowed to sell more than 4-5 cars per year without having a business license to do so, in most states in the US. Sure that time frame wouldn't apply here, but if you're selling 4-5 cars a month (more in line with our time frames), then you either have a portrayal issue or you're selling cars on the side in which you should apply to be a dealership. Either way, standards need to be applied fairly to everyone. Mobile dealerships shouldn't be allowed.

 

@Mahitto Pretty much summed up the rest of what I would've said in response. So that's that 👏 Easiest way to do this is to scriptly limit the amount of vehicles someone can sell per month and in order to increase that, they apply for it through PM and become a dealer. Same process that PM enforces with real estate, where you have to apply to have more than a certain amount of properties as a real estate company.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Mindbag

[Devastante]

The big issues I have with the discussion regarding limiting dealers to a certain type or price range of vehicle, is that in the used market I HAVE NO CONTROL over what people bring me as far as things to buy.

 

If other dealers want to limit themselves be my guest.

It would be one thing if we were supplied by LFM or had some type of bulk auction for dealers (a fantastic idea btw) And a shoutout to whoever ran that vehicle auction I attended over the summer that was amazing. but that's not how it works, its completely driven by the current market.

 

Plus I may never have inventory if I just have to sit around and wait for someone to bring me a specific type / price vehicle to sell.

 

I will say my goal was to mainly stick to lower budget vehicles, which I have done by far. Occasionally a high end vehicle for a good price comes my way, sue me.

 

I MOVE WITH THE MARKET, which is what would happen in real life. 

 

Not only that but it's unrealistic, go to almost any used car lot and they will have a wide range of vehicles/prices (for the most part obviously there's exceptions to this.)

*From someone who's bought several vehicles from used dealers in the past, and has worked at 3 different dealerships in the past irl.

 

As for the flipping thing, it's been echoed but to me the best solution still seems to be, simply limit the number of vehicles sales per month for non dealership employee's.

(Which would still be abuseable as people could just avoid the /sellvehicle script and bank transfer the funds independently of the script. Which im not a fan of people being able to do at all.)

Edited February 5, 2022 by Devastante

[mj2002]

3 hours ago, Devastante said:

As for the flipping thing, it's been echoed but to me the best solution still seems to be, simply limit the number of vehicles sales per month for non dealership employee's.

(Which would still be abuseable as people could just avoid the /sellvehicle script and bank transfer the funds independently of the script. Which im not a fan of people being able to do at all.)

Using banktransfer only avoids taxes. You need to use it to sell the vehicle still.

[HB]

3 hours ago, Devastante said:

It would be one thing if we were supplied by LFM or had some type of bulk auction for dealers (a fantastic idea btw) And a shoutout to whoever ran that vehicle auction I attended over the summer that was amazing. but that's not how it works, its completely driven by the current market.

 

It was something I had thought of. Like cars from players who have been perma banned for the last six months and are unlikely to return, or cars ICLY impounded permanently being auctioned off. LFM can hand over the assets to the auction house to bid on the auction house operators take a cut and the rest of the funds go to the city. This should be an invite only auction. Like if you aren't a dealer you can't get in. 

[Devastante]

39 minutes ago, mj2002 said:

Using banktransfer only avoids taxes. You need to use it to sell the vehicle still.

That's true you are right, guess I wasn't thinking when I typed that.