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Your thoughts on law enforcement and jail?


Amellis

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Criminals should have to spend time in prison not just able to switch over to Alts while their timer runs down.

 

One of the key differences between role play and regular games is that actions have longer standing consequences and by evading those, you aren’t engaging in meaningful role play on a heavy Rp server. 
 

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29 minutes ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

Criminals should have to spend time in prison not just able to switch over to Alts while their timer runs down.

 

One of the key differences between role play and regular games is that actions have longer standing consequences and by evading those, you aren’t engaging in meaningful role play on a heavy Rp server. 
 

Forcing someone to roleplay a set character because they're in prison, not allowing them to /changechar'ing especially when you can buy character slots, is very barbaric. Let people enjoy the game at their own pace. If they want to not reduce time through RP, they don't have to.

In an RP server if you can give choice, always give choice. It is literally integral to RP in and of itself.


Though, my previous reply on how this could be better, from an RP standpoint, still stands.

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2 minutes ago, Wynters said:

Forcing someone to roleplay a set character because they're in prison, not allowing them to /changechar'ing especially when you can buy character slots, is very barbaric. Let people enjoy the game at their own pace. If they want to not reduce time through RP, they don't have to.

Forcing someone to roleplay a set character because they're being mugged, not allowing them to leave, especially when the roleplay is distinctly unfun, is very barbaric. Let people enjoy the game at their own pace. If they want to not participate in a mugging, they shouldn't have to.

 

Either criminals can accept consequences, or surrender their control over the roleplay of others. 

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4 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

Forcing someone to roleplay a set character because they're being mugged, not allowing them to leave, especially when the roleplay is distinctly unfun, is very barbaric. Let people enjoy the game at their own pace. If they want to not participate in a mugging, they shouldn't have to.

 

Either criminals can accept consequences, or surrender their control over the roleplay of others. 

My point was more-so towards forcing someone to stay logged in-game on one character over the course of however long their jail-sentence is. You being in an RP scenario, in this case a robbery, is different.

Trust me, I see your point, but it's a completely different thing. One is roleplaying on your alt while your main is in jail, cos you wanna take a break from jail-rp, the other is logging to avoid RP cos it doesn't suit you (aka a huge play to win mentality). It's not about the jailed player choosing to avoid the prison RP it's about wanting to break from it or something for some hours after RPing a bit in jail. It goes hand in hand with players who make prison characters and then hop on their alt or something, you know?

Edited by Wynters
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6 minutes ago, Wynters said:

Let people enjoy the game at their own pace.

This was the premise of your statement - let people enjoy the game.

 

1 minute ago, Wynters said:

My point was more-so towards forcing someone to stay logged in-game on one character over the course of however long their jail-sentence.

Because it is not fun to spend time in prison, correct?

 

1 minute ago, Wynters said:

...in this case a robbery, is different.

To the contrary, muggings are also rarely fun. Our examples are actually not very different at all if your argument is about allowing people to enjoy the game.

 

2 minutes ago, Wynters said:

it's about wanting to break from it or something for some hours after RPing a bit in jail.

They are free to have a break, but until they roleplay their sentence in-character, that character will remain in prison. I do agree that denying them a character switch would be barbaric, but that is not a suggestion I support. I do however support that they should not be allowed to namechange or leave prison until they have been IC for some portion of their sentence.

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10 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

This was the premise of your statement - let people enjoy the game.

 

Because it is not fun to spend time in prison, correct?

 

To the contrary, muggings are also rarely fun. Our examples are actually not very different at all if your argument is about allowing people to enjoy the game.

 

They are free to have a break, but until they roleplay their sentence in-character, that character will remain in prison. I do agree that denying them a character switch would be barbaric, but that is not a suggestion I support. I do however support that they should not be allowed to namechange or leave prison until they have been IC for some portion of their sentence.

Ah, it was not the premise. More-so an add-on of my opinion, nothing of which I say is a statement, just how I think. And it's got me this far, so why not share my views if it helps others understand better.

 

As for the second line of text "Because it is not fun to spend time in prison, correct?" I have done prison RP and it's quite fun. If you re-roll some pages back you'll find my thoughts on the prison RP experience and how it can be better.

 

And my argument was never primarily based on "letting people enjoy the game" I think you kind of outlined a few words out of the entire things I was attempting to say with this one. Common misunderstanding there, perhaps with how I worded it, but oh well, my points are there. Just re-read it.

 

"They are free to have a break, but until they roleplay their sentence in-character, that character will remain in prison. I do agree that denying them a character switch would be barbaric, but that is not a suggestion I support. I do however support that they should not be allowed to namechange or leave prison until they have been IC for some portion of their sentence."

 

Yeah I never disagreed with this one. I just say that you shouldn't confine someone to one character from an OOC standpoint cos they're ICly jailed, not only is that mixing two constructs (IC and OOC) it is also punishing the player for how they roleplay their character. It's more of an OOC admin jail at that point. I also never commented on your latter suggestions so I'm confused as to why we're back and forth'ing this tbh.

 

I have no comment on the namechange, because I didn't know people do name changing in prison to try n avoid or smth, as for the being IC/RPing in prison for a portion of it, this actually, is something I do support, because if they are actually able to hop in-game, on that character, they should RP like 3 hours of game-time or depending on severity of crime, and the rest can be afk'd, that way it makes it easier to handle, time wise.

Edited by Wynters
corrections!
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35 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

Forcing someone to roleplay a set character because they're being mugged, not allowing them to leave, especially when the roleplay is distinctly unfun, is very barbaric. Let people enjoy the game at their own pace. If they want to not participate in a mugging, they shouldn't have to.

 

Either criminals can accept consequences, or surrender their control over the roleplay of others. 

You realize that them not being able to play on that character for that amount of time IS a form of punishment? They do suffer consequences, by not being able to play those characters. Forcing them to RP in jail goes against everything you're taught in the rules. 

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On 2/18/2021 at 7:01 PM, Greyfeather said:

The limitations make investigation of crime difficult.

 

I do have a question, though. While RPing early on at Davis, as well RPing traffic accidents, and other incidents over time, my character was a "witness" to a lot of crimes. My character is also a civilian and is quite fine with being honest to police...if she's asked to help them, and thinks it's safe to do so. But a problem I noticed early on was that some - not all, but enough to make it noticeable - police RPers quite obviously didn't know how to assess a crime scene and canvass potential witnesses. On multiple occasions where I put her right there at the crime scene and made it obvious that she was a witness, nobody bothered to ask, let alone get a statement.

 

But the whole "snitches get stitches" mentality in Davis meant she was never going to put herself forward without some encouragement.

 

And while we're at it, that same mentality, although seeming known by everyone, never seemed to factor into how interviews were conducted whenever someone did conduct one. Every time, the LEO just started asking questions in front of a crowd right there at the scene. I saw so many potential witnesses just lie and say they saw nothing. My character also lied out of self-preservation when I saw known gang members lurking around. I often wondered why nobody ever took potential witnesses to a location away from others and then try to use tricks (or just plain charisma) to convince them to talk. Davis LTD had a staff/storage room that was perfect for it.

 

Combine this with a court system which would enable judicial orders prohibiting the publishing and public disclosure of witness identities and you potentially increase the evidence available for convictions.

 

So my question is this: What sort of crime scene investigation training is offered to LEO RPers in the game, and are there protocols that have to be complied with? Do people get any training on how to take a statement as well as what needs to be in it?

 

Even though it's been a decent amount of time, here is my take on this. 

 

The answer is fairly simple for both the LSPD and LSSD, and it's simply a fact that a lot of the crimes that we get called to aren't investigated, with the reason as to why being rather complicated and dependant on the player that is playing the officer, one of the main reasons is paperwork and it's ratio. As stated and I think beyond proven at this point, the servers crime rate is basically much more higher then of any metropolitan area in the United States, with a lot of shootings, murders and robberies happening daily if not hourly at some points through the night, with about 30-40 law enforcement officers patrolling the streets, from time to time we can be very much stretched and short staffed even with the numbers since some situations require more officers and some less, but let's specifically talk about paperwork. For the sake of our justice system and that it's a roleplay server law enforcement roleplayers are required to do a decent amount of paperwork surrounding their position which a lot of us really don't like and if the night is busy and the person pleas not guilty, I can very well spend around half of my playing session on the Mobile Data Computer filling out information, typing a narrative, etc. Which I don't specifically mind but I know a lot of others aren't a fan of.

 

With that being said, a lot of the times the factor if a crime will be further investigated is if the primary officer conducts his preliminary investigation properly and if he forwards an incident report towards detectives which isn't mandatory and I never want it to be mandatory, why? Simple, a lot of the crimes that we respond to are very much situations where we can deal with them on scene by arresting, issuing citations, issuing trespass orders, written warnings or such and when it comes to other incidents, at least ninety percent of the time there is no possible and reliable way to conduct an actual investigation into them and one that is actually worth a detectives time. If I arrive to a body where it is a PK, there are no casings, witnesses and absolutely NO forensic evidence, what am I exactly supposed to do with it? Nothing, I can do literally nothing, so I'll call DMEC (Department of Medical Examiner and Coroner) to pick up the body and drive off until I come over the almost same scene once again, and this is just not limited to finding a body with no evidence but also a lot other scenes such as robberies at gun-point where they give us the description of guy wearing a mask, wearing a black clothing, riding a black bike and that is it, can't do almost anything with that.

 

To put it simply at the end, it's a game, and we'll always treat it as such meaning we won't waste 30 minutes of our time that we are investing into the community writing up a meaningless incident report for a scene which can hardly investigated even if, or pushing out reports for every single 911 call I respond to since it would turn on his from a roleplay server to paperwork simulator, and almost nobody finds that fun. (I kind of do.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Moe said:

You realize that them not being able to play on that character for that amount of time IS a form of punishment?

So you are onboard with revoking the risk of a CK if a civilian decides to run from a mugger? ...because that is also a form of punishment.

 

There is a one-sidedness to this whole idea of punishment, in which criminals have a powerful amount of control over their victims, yet an absolute refusal to have anything resembling said control in reverse when their risks end up with consequences.

 

What happens when a mugger runs from the police? So long as they do not directly attack the police, every attempt is made to keep them alive up to the point where the criminal is surrounded, or they escape.

 

...but if a civilian runs? Permanently denied any further use of that character forever. 

 

I am willing to completely step back from the position of warranting consequences for criminals, if criminals are willing to support a permanent reduction in consequences for civilians.

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55 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

So you are onboard with revoking the risk of a CK if a civilian decides to run from a mugger? ...because that is also a form of punishment.

 

There is a one-sidedness to this whole idea of punishment, in which criminals have a powerful amount of control over their victims, yet an absolute refusal to have anything resembling said control in reverse when their risks end up with consequences.

 

What happens when a mugger runs from the police? So long as they do not directly attack the police, every attempt is made to keep them alive up to the point where the criminal is surrounded, or they escape.

 

...but if a civilian runs? Permanently denied any further use of that character forever. 

 

I am willing to completely step back from the position of warranting consequences for criminals, if criminals are willing to support a permanent reduction in consequences for civilians.

If a criminal is constantly committing murder and other violent acts, they get points, and when they reach 30 points, they get life or basically a CK. I'm gonna assume you don't know that because clearly that's punishment just as harsh. And if you, as a civilian, want to win every situation where you get mugged, and want to run from the robbers without suffering the consequences too, then that is simply a play to win mentality. Mind you, I am a legal roleplayer too, so it's not like I'm benefitting from this, but it's simply inappropriate to force someone to roleplay in jail if they don't want to. In fact, they are rewarded when they roleplay in jail by having their timer go down 3x faster. So them not roleplaying in jail, only makes it worse for them. 
 

Also, the same applies for legal and criminal roleplayers. When legal roleplayers run from criminals, they can get CK'ed depending on the situation. When criminals run from cops, they are also prone to being CK'ed depending on the situation. If you comply with the criminals, you lose the few thousand on you, when criminals comply with cops, they get arrested and sentenced. It goes both ways. Rather than looking at a scenario with a win or lose mentality, look at it as character development for your character, regardless of the outcome.

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