Jump to content

What is your opinion/thoughts on illegal RP


Spartan

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, BjornV said:

Not be part of a gang.

I agree with everything else but this. IRL gang members that don't have a criminal record own PF weapons and so should they ig. Having that IC, with an ooc limitation of buying 1/2 firearms per month would be ideal. That way, access to firearms becomes realistic and the illegal firearm market still remains since everyone that has a record, wont be able to purchase a firearm. It's funny that it's easier for a gang member to find and purchase a firearm IRL, than in game.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
8 minutes ago, BjornV said:

And this is why there's a limit.

Though this act is not against the rules (Unless you're part of a street gang, in which case you can't have a PF), raising the monthly limit even a little would flood both legal and illegal markets with pistols a lot more. 

I honestly don't know how difficult it is to get ahold of an illegal pistol (Because I haven't RPed illegal on this server), but with the right contacts I don't believe you'll have a hard time at all, considering how many people shot their gun at me in a traffic stop only to be PKed 10/10 times and lose the gun anyway.

 

OOC rules seem to be a problem here for unrealistically restricting the economy.

In case you weren't aware, the US gun market is flooded and since we're trying to portray a heavy RP realistic server, that's entirely okay. It's also why firearms are so cheap IRL compared to a 40k cost in GTA:W - which is precisely the issue people are talking about.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
5 minutes ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

 

OOC rules seem to be a problem here for unrealistically restricting the economy.

In case you weren't aware, the US gun market is flooded and since we're trying to portray a heavy RP realistic server, that's entirely okay. It's also why firearms are so cheap IRL compared to a 40k cost in GTA:W - which is precisely the issue people are talking about.

Uhm.

A legal pistol costs about 8k already? It's literally said that you could compare 1 dollar IRL with 10 dollars IC in the tutorial isn't it?

40k costs a few hours to gather at most. Unless you're paid weekly with a limit of 20 hours, you can keep working and working for cash.
And you get what, 200k starter cash? 5000 an hour for your first 40 hours.

40k for a pistol is not too much. It's enough to make you think twice before engaging in a shootout.

Meanwhile, legal RP does not generally have the ability to choose their shootouts. Their choice is to flee or to fight.

If the illegal guns are too expensive, then that's an issue with illegal RPers who sell them, they're setting those prices. There is a lot to do in the IC world to make the sellers compete for lower prices.

8 minutes ago, petrosxo said:

I agree with everything else but this. IRL gang members that don't have a criminal record own PF weapons and so should they ig. Having that IC, with an ooc limitation of buying 1/2 firearms per month would be ideal. That way, access to firearms becomes realistic and the illegal firearm market still remains since everyone that has a record, wont be able to purchase a firearm. It's funny that it's easier for a gang member to find and purchase a firearm IRL, than in game.

 

The limitations are made by LFM/administratrion.

I have no support nor dislike of this limitation. I am careless on it being effective or not. I see why it's here, though.

Edited by BjornV
Link to comment

It's not just the gun economy, it's the entire economy that is completely fucked and it's beyond repair, just like other servers in the past. It'll continue to get worse.

 

$200 for a beer? $20k+ for a handgun. $120k for a 1 bd apartment on forum drive.

 

We talk about realism on the server and yet it's like we're in post WW1 Germany in regards to the economy. 

 

 

As for the actual question, it's fine. It'd be nice to see some implementations of features that benefit criminal role play however.

Edited by Smith
Link to comment
5 minutes ago, BjornV said:

Uhm.

A legal pistol costs about 8k already? It's literally said that you could compare 1 dollar IRL with 10 dollars IC in the tutorial isn't it?

40k costs a few hours to gather at most. Unless you're paid weekly with a limit of 20 hours, you can keep working and working for cash.
And you get what, 200k starter cash? 5000 an hour for your first 40 hours.

40k for a pistol is not too much. It's enough to make you think twice before engaging in a shootout.

 

Without going to deep into economics, illegal RPers don't set the price, supply & demand sets the price. It's a cute difference, but it's a relevant one.

 

The OOC limit artificially restricts scarcity of an item and thus is responsible for hiking the price - which btw, is an illegal sale from one criminal to another - so it actually disadvantages the poorer criminal than the one selling the firearm.

 

Without such artificial restrictions, the price would be far lower, lowering the profit for the seller but at the same time reducing the cost to the buyer. However, the economy wouldn't be artificially set and the price of illegal fire arms would find a natural and realistic value rather than a fake and inflated one.

 

 

Edited by Alyssa McCarthy
Link to comment
1 minute ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

Without going to deep into economics, illegal RPers don't set the price, supply & demand sets the price. It's a cute difference, but it's a relevant one.

Not true. Supply & demand affects it, but in the end it's the criminals that sell them that determine how much they sell them for. If they get the gun for 10000 and decide to sell it at 4x profit, and everyone else does too, that's not something that a higher supply will alleviate.

Maybe a higher supply of sellers would. 

 

1 minute ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

The OOC limit artificially restricts scarcity of an item and thus is responsible for hiking the price - which btw, is an illegal sale from one criminal to another - so it actually disadvantages the poorer criminal than the one selling the firearm.

Yet my interactions with criminal RPers do not show a scarcity of pistols. I have seen plenty of people shoot a pistol, end up dieing and losing it anyways while different forms RP could've made the situation turn up entirely different. People have unloaded guns at cops simply because they got pulled over not even knowing what for.

Why is it so hard to notice this apparent lack of illegal firearms?
And yes, part of economics is that the vendor sells an item for a higher price than he gets them for. So saying "It disadvantages the poorer criminal" isn't anything to mention. That's just capitalism.

1 minute ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

Without such artificial restrictions, the price would be far lower, lowering the profit for the seller but at the same time reducing the cost to the buyer. However, the economy wouldn't be artificially set and the price of illegal fire arms would find a natural and realistic value rather than a fake and inflated one.

Okay, if we're talking about realistic values, do you /charity a couple 10000's every month to simulate the cost of living? (Following 1 dollar = 10 dollar doctrine). Are you going to RP being homeless when you don't own/rent a property?

The firearms aren't overly expensive or inflated. Do you know why they're 40k when a legal firearm is about 10k?
Because you'll end up buying it anyways. Even if they'd make it 80k, I think that there'd still be people buying them.

There's various items in-real life which sell for insane prices not because they're so expensive to create/rare, but simply because they have a specific brand on them or are from far away, have a specific design ETC. These items are mainly expensive because people are willing to pay a high price for them. 

 A glock 19 costs $499.00 to $649.00 IRL. The median monthly wage in the US in 2015 was $2494. The price of a glock 19 is 1/5th of a person's monthly wage. You do not "Just" decide to buy a gun out of the blue if you don't have money saved.

40k for a pistol is not high. With some of the script jobs, you can earn 40k several times a day. Playing poker, you can earn hundreds of thousands at once if not millions. You literally get 200k for nothing, and 400(?) dollars an hour basic income.

Link to comment
18 minutes ago, BjornV said:

40k for a pistol is not too much. It's enough to make you think twice before engaging in a shootout.

40k is 1/5th of the starting 200k. 1/5th for a pistol is wayyy too much. Plus lost of times illegal rpers dont choose to engage in shootouts. Since when there's conflict between factions, you can find your self both on the attacking and on the defending side. If you choose not to attack, you still need the firearm to 'defend'.

 

18 minutes ago, BjornV said:

The limitations are made by LFM/administratrion.

I have no support nor dislike of this limitation. I am careless on it being effective or not. I see why it's here, though.

Since the prices for a firearm are so high, I'd say it's not working properly. I can see how they came up with this idea, but it gives more of a short term solution, rather than a long term one. That's why the firearm economy is all over the place, because they've made the supply really really low to something that the demand is relatively high.

Link to comment
15 minutes ago, BjornV said:

40k costs a few hours to gather at most. Unless you're paid weekly with a limit of 20 hours, you can keep working and working for cash.
And you get what, 200k starter cash? 5000 an hour for your first 40 hours.

Can you break down how you would go about earning 40k in a few hours as an illegal RPer that has already spent their 200k starter cash on a $40,000 car, $120,000 house and just assume you had a gun (that cost $40,000) and lost it after two weeks because of a gang war. The rest of your money went to buying clothing items, hairstyles, boomboxes and the like.

 

 I agree with everything Alyssa has said. Guns are only expensive because they're rare. A GTA RP server in the early 2010s had no real limit on guns and only organizations would distribute guns across the server. Guns were super cheap and abundant. Along came a group of like-minded people who claimed reducing guns on the server would decrease death matching on a server. Death matching didn't decrease, instead you got PF abuse, OOC weapon trading and guns going from $7,000 to $20,000+. 

 

Just now, BjornV said:

Why is it so hard to notice this apparent lack of illegal firearms?

Because as an officer, you're likely dealing with the percentage of players that do have firearms. 4 active months on the server and 1 month owning an illegal faction, I've seen 6 guns circle around my group. 5 of those guns were stolen, the other was bought for $40,000. 

Link to comment
1 minute ago, petrosxo said:

40k is 1/5th of the starting 200k. 1/5th for a pistol is wayyy too much. Plus lost of times illegal rpers dont choose to engage in shootouts. Since when there's conflict between factions, you can find your self both on the attacking and on the defending side. If you choose not to attack, you still need the firearm to 'defend'.

 

Since the prices for a firearm are so high, I'd say it's not working properly. I can see how they came up with this idea, but it gives more of a short term solution, rather than a long term one. That's why the firearm economy is all over the place, because they've made the supply really really low to something that the demand is relatively high.

Though a gun in-real life costs as much as if not more than 1/5th of the median monthly income in the USA. And there's a lot more income to be had apart from starter cash.

The prices of firearms are set by the people selling them, if nobody'd buy from them, they'd be forced to either find a new source of income or lower their prices until they do.

1 minute ago, Topiyo said:

Can you break down how you would go about earning 40k in a few hours as an illegal RPer that has already spent their 200k starter cash on a $40,000 car, $120,000 house and just assume you had a gun (that cost $40,000) and lost it after two weeks because of a gang war. The rest of your money went to buying clothing items, hairstyles, boomboxes and the like.

 

 I agree with everything Alyssa has said. Guns are only expensive because they're rare. A GTA RP server in the early 2010s had no real limit on guns and only organizations would distribute guns across the server. Guns were super cheap and abundant. Along came a group of like-minded people who claimed reducing guns on the server would decrease death matching on a server. Death matching didn't decrease, instead you got PF abuse, OOC weapon trading and guns going from $7,000 to $20,000+. 

 

Because as an officer, you're likely dealing with the percentage of players that do have firearms. 4 active months on the server and 1 month owning an illegal faction, I've seen 6 guns circle around my group. 5 of those guns were stolen, the other was bought for $40,000. 

Script jobs can earn you a lot in a short time. An illegal RPer has nothing to do in this situation, we're specifically talking about gang members.

And unless you're a shotcaller/some other big banger (And even if you are), you'd /likely/ have some form of legal work where you earn money from, jobs which earn as much if not more as a high ranking government official earns every week. Mechanics can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars just in an hour of being open. 

I come from a server which had much more regulations on gun licenses, outright banning any illegal characters from owning them. Yet criminals still found an abundance of firearms illegally.

Link to comment
29 minutes ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

 

OOC rules seem to be a problem here for unrealistically restricting the economy.

In case you weren't aware, the US gun market is flooded and since we're trying to portray a heavy RP realistic server, that's entirely okay. It's also why firearms are so cheap IRL compared to a 40k cost in GTA:W - which is precisely the issue people are talking about.

While I'm all for realism, like @.Pluto.pointed out it is something that's heavily abusable if we just open up the flood gates. The way I see it, if we keep similar restrictions but increase the buy limit to 2 or 3 a month, it'll make it easier not only to convince mostly legitimate character to sell their guns under the table but it'll also increase the likelihood of people finding guns through B&E's and other methods. The majority of people shouldn't be hooked up with a major weapons pipeline but they have no other choice given the current circumstances in game.

 

 

Link to comment
  • Wuhtah locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...