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What is your opinion/thoughts on illegal RP


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4 hours ago, Topiyo said:

I recall reading at the start of the year that 8 prominent official faction leaders were grouped together to discuss ways that the server can focus on improving illegal RP over the course of 2021.

This is true and is still in fact happening as leaders alongside management come up with new ideas.

 

4 hours ago, Topiyo said:

Also heard that discussed improvements were delayed until 1.1 is rolled out.

This is thankfully not true. Many of the discussed ideas and illegal changes have already been brought out (many TTCF changes, /passjoint, scanner reusability, etc). There are still more in-depth changes that need to be brought to light that will require some more time but thankfully it's not a case of having to wait till 1.1 for them to be brought forward.

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4 hours ago, Topiyo said:

Drugs are difficult to move

 

I agree, but I wouldn't say drugs are difficult to move due to the risk associated. More like, they're difficult to move because there isn't a strong end market of consumers, which will take the drugs "out of circulation", allowing the circle to close.

For example, Mexican cartels move tons of heroin into the US every year, and they will keep doing so because they know there is a strong demand for heroin there (the opioid crisis and all that jazz). It's a thing that we're lacking IMO, and management could take a look at this. Giving drugs some sort of demand would help fix some issues.

 

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The Economy

Going soft on the economy is the single biggest reason illegal RP struggles to justify it's existence, and here's why.

 

The fundamental reason why most people IRL commit crime is related to the poverty trap. This is why wealthier people commit far less crime - why risk a jail sentence when you've all the money you ever need?

 

This isn't portrayed because there is no poverty on GTA:W outside of a very small subgroup of players who literally force poverty upon themselves - This should not be necessary if the economy was handled correctly.

 

Every player starts with a huge amount of money & prices for high end items are far too low. Give players an option to choose to be poor and remove / greatly reduce their huge millionaire lifestyle starting funds.

 

Without poverty, the fundamental reason for the vast majority of crime isn't there, and the need or desire to do crime is literally reduced to being a hobby.

 

The server is far too European in it's outlook when it comes to social care & it's laws - hourly welfare checks for teenagers? free healthcare? ridiculously cheap housing costs? All these seem 'nice' and make the server easy, but unfortunately, what essentially equate to huge money sinks (or provision of funds), make everyone super wealthy and entirely destroy the immersion of living in Capitalist America.

 

Players should be in a situation where to own anything 'really nice', they should need to take out a loan and be in debt (average household debt in the US is ~145k), which then introduces a real modern day subset of crime and culture - dodgy loans companies and debt chasers and not to mention of course, the desire in the criminally minded to make a quick / easy buck rather than doing a boring 9-5. Even legal Rpers would be tempted to commit a crimes to afford something real nice if they weren't all born super wealthy - making a quick 20-50k means a lot more when you need the cash & this would only add to immersion.

 

TLDR; Fix the economy, make money matter and give a reason for crime to exist rather than it being a 'hobby'.

Edited by Alyssa McCarthy
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19 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

So how does one find and socialize with such mafia types? Obviously it is not easy, as each additional relationship is possibly a No-Narc Nicky situation, but I am curious as to where to start.

Well as Henning said before me, hanging around businesses is normally a good way to go about it, I know personally, that me and my faction members try to befriend the locals. 

 

You'll most likely start off by befriending an associate of sorts, and from there you can most of the time assume who's who by the way people treat them, if everyone treats a single person with greater respect than any other, it's not a hard assumption to make. 

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1 hour ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

Every player starts with a huge amount of money & prices for high end items are far too low. Give players an option to choose to be poor and remove / greatly reduce their huge millionaire lifestyle starting funds.

The poverty argument makes a lot of sense, but you gotta realise it actually costs a lot of money to illegal rp. Imagine starting with just 50-100k and right off the bat you gotta spend 40 of that on a pistol. There are more important systemic problems as to how the economy  works especially in illegal rp, and the drug and gun market are two of those. Illegal rpers are playing at a loss just to be able to portray what they want to portray.

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I've never really understood the appeal of making a GTArp server and to not make illegal RP your main focus.

Is this GTArp or second life?

 

Illegal RP is in desperate need of some new updates, something for people to sink their teeth into (no, that doesn't include another f*cking police car or a reskin). What happened to the drug update, the money update?

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1 hour ago, TomRom97 said:

The poverty argument makes a lot of sense, but you gotta realise it actually costs a lot of money to illegal rp. Imagine starting with just 50-100k and right off the bat you gotta spend 40 of that on a pistol. There are more important systemic problems as to how the economy  works especially in illegal rp, and the drug and gun market are two of those. Illegal rpers are playing at a loss just to be able to portray what they want to portray.

I agree

 

The fact you have to pay 40k for a firearm is absurd.

 

You literally could drive to Nevada or other San Andreas City to buy a firearm and be back within the same day - they are so easy to obtain in the US.

 

Although I'd also include this under my statement of 'Fix the economy'.

If house/car and other assets were priced realistic, if salaries were realistic, if the welfare system was realistic & starting wealth realistic, then you'd have an overall much more realistic environment with realistic reasons to commit realistic crime with hopefully, realistic consequences for all parties involved.

 

Until then, it just all feels 'hobby crime', because 99% of characters can't spend there starting money without buying absurd items that you could only dream of owning in the real world.

 

Because 'fun', unfortunately is a common answer but it's also an answer with dire consequences on what it means for believable RP, especially when it comes to the world of crime.

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2 hours ago, friendlyman said:

Illegal RP is in desperate need of some new updates, something for people to sink their teeth into (no, that doesn't include another f*cking police car or a reskin). What happened to the drug update, the money update?

Drugs on the server are a lost cause at this point.

 

No matter how many revamps of the drug system we have (we've had one, maybe even two, since I've been here) will address the fact that the vast majority of people don't want to RP as junkies. Hell, you could give everyone unlimited drugs for free and a vast majority still wouldn't use them. What makes you think a civilian is going to risk obtaining illicit drugs from someone who would sooner just rob them? Why isn't there a drug market within illegal orgs? Presumably, members of organized crime have more access to it, but we don't see any demand there either.

 

This is the result of individual decision making that no number of stat boosts, cute drug descriptions, or drug system remakes will address. The only way to fix that calculus is to change the relationship between illegal orgs and civilians, but your comparison of civilian RP to Second Life seems to indicate this won't happen any time in the foreseeable future.

 

I presume by "money update" you mean the inclusion of some sort of revenue auditing service that would force criminals to launder their dirty money before using it - which has much more merit than trying to remake the drug system again.

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4 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Drugs on the server are a lost cause at this point.

 

No matter how many revamps of the drug system we have (we've had one, maybe even two, since I've been here) will address the fact that the vast majority of people don't want to RP as junkies. Hell, you could give everyone unlimited drugs for free and a vast majority still wouldn't use them. What makes you think a civilian is going to risk obtaining illicit drugs from someone who would sooner just rob them? Why isn't there a drug market within illegal orgs? Presumably, members of organized crime have more access to it, but we don't see any demand there either.

 

This is the result of individual decision making that no number of stat boosts, cute drug descriptions, or drug system remakes will address. The only way to fix that calculus is to change the relationship between illegal orgs and civilians, but your comparison of civilian RP to Second Life seems to indicate this won't happen any time in the foreseeable future.

 

I presume by "money update" you mean the inclusion of some sort of revenue auditing service that would force criminals to launder their dirty money before using it - which has much more merit than trying to remake the drug system again.

Why would I rob you if you will buy drugs from me every day? If you had a bad experience with someone, who clearly isn't roleplaying in illegal faction, just driving around and robbing people, doesn't mean everyone is like that. Take a first step, stop thinking it's illegal roleplayers' fault. You don't see a demand? People are making shit ton of money by selling kilos, there's always a demand. 

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33 minutes ago, .Pluto. said:

Why would I rob you if you will buy drugs from me every day? If you had a bad experience with someone, who clearly isn't roleplaying in illegal faction, just driving around and robbing people, doesn't mean everyone is like that. Take a first step, stop thinking it's illegal roleplayers' fault. You don't see a demand? People are making shit ton of money by selling kilos, there's always a demand. 

  1. Alternatively, people avoid the "buy drugs off me or I rob you" dynamic by not engaging to begin with. Too much risk for RP they're not even that enthusiastic about to begin with.
     
  2. It's a common enough problem to cause mistrust. All it takes is organized illegal RPers being flippantly dismissive of the concern - case in point. Unless you're going to wear nametags announcing you're part of the official organized illegal RPers who aren't bad crowd, people will hedge their bets.
     
  3. If there's demand and it's working, why are there cries for an overhaul? Think that might be too rosy of an opinion on the state of drug pushing RP.
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