Official rule on /showitems

[EffPee]

2 minutes ago, Taina said:

My character doesn't typically carry more than a few hundred dollars and I become very frustrated when someone spam's me with /showitems or accuses me of stalling. It's a quick way to ruin a good RP because the person robbing me is prioritizing monetary gain over roleplay.  It should never be assumed that another player is 'lying' about items or 'stalling'. The suggestion made in the OP is a good way of addressing this problem.

 

 

And this just points to a major character development issue. If a character is that hard up for money, then he/she should be seeking an additional  source of income, whether it's legal/illegal - like people do in real life. Otherwise, they should just RP struggling to survive on the very little they make while relying solely on robbing people as a source of income.  But prioritizing monetary gain over roleplay is something that should never happen - whether or not robberies are a character's main source of income.

 

Maybe I've worded it wrong.

 

I don't make the assumption that people are stalling, I'm just referring to the situations where the person is stalling. The same way it can't be assumed that people are stalling, it can't be assumed that people are being honest. Primarily due to the history behind it, legal roleplayers don't trust illegal roleplayers, and vice versa. Personally, I'm sure most people are being honest, but some people aren't as trusting as me.

 

A character should be looking for additional sources of income, I never said they don't, nor did I say they wouldn't. But if they are part of a gang, along with their primary source of income, robberies are a part of a way to make more money. My point was that people shouldn't prioritize monetary gain over roleplay, but because of the lack of financial opportunities for illegal roleplayers without resorting to just, get a job, some fail to keep their integrity and start robbing for money over roleplay. 

 

For the record, I am for this suggestion, I think it's the best compromise anyone will get. 

[Taina]

9 minutes ago, EffPee said:

Maybe I've worded it wrong.

 

I don't make the assumption that people are stalling, I'm just referring to the situations where the person is stalling. The same way it can't be assumed that people are stalling, it can't be assumed that people are being honest. Primarily due to the history behind it, legal roleplayers don't trust illegal roleplayers, and vice versa. Personally, I'm sure most people are being honest, but some people aren't as trusting as me.

 

No, I think I'm the one that worded things wrong here lol.

 

I realize YOU do not hold these positions.  I understand that you're only pointing out how some people go about things IG. I'm just adding my own observations to your points.

 

I've talked before about how frustrated I've become when I've been accused of stalling.  It's happened so many times to me and I try my best to follow the rules and play fairly so it's really insulting to me when someone who won't even bother to properly develop their character accuses me of stalling/lying just because they're trying to gain money/items without being caught while I'm trying to RP. 

 

21 minutes ago, EffPee said:

Personally, I'm sure most people are being honest, but some people aren't as trusting as me.

This is probably the only thing I disagree with you on. I'm not so sure that most people are being honest when they tell me they have nothing of value on them, but I don't really care so I just take their word for it - because I'm not OOCly engaging in that type of RP for whatever money/items I can gain. My CHARACTER is, but she just goes home disappointed and worried about not getting whatever it is she needed/was hoping for. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, EffPee said:

A character should be looking for additional sources of income, I never said they don't, nor did I say they wouldn't. But if they are part of a gang, along with their primary source of income, robberies are a part of a way to make more money. My point was that people shouldn't prioritize monetary gain over roleplay, but because of the lack of financial opportunities for illegal roleplayers without resorting to just, get a job, some fail to keep their integrity and start robbing for money over roleplay. 

 

For the record, I am for this suggestion, I think it's the best compromise anyone will get. 

Character development is a huge problem across the server - it's not just limited to illegal players, and this is frustrating to me too because illegal players get enough judgment for 'poor portrayal' and 'bad rp'.  So to bounce off your observation, I think it's important for us to recognize that part of the issue here stems from what appears to be a lack of proper character development for players who rely on robberies as their main source of income.  

[EffPee]

18 minutes ago, Taina said:

Character development is a huge problem across the server - it's not just limited to illegal players, and this is frustrating to me too because illegal players get enough judgment for 'poor portrayal' and 'bad rp'.  So to bounce off your observation, I think it's important for us to recognize that part of the issue here stems from what appears to be a lack of proper character development for players who rely on robberies as their main source of income.  

 

This is very true, I think there's a discussion to be had about this in general and I'm sure plenty of people have contrasting opinions on it, would be nice to see this in gen discussions eventually (if it hasn't already been done).

 

Bottom line though, /showitems after robberies is the best of a bad situation. 

[joaoivis]

In addition to this, a command should be added to add a note on the side of the item in your /inv to describe where it is just like the stashinfo script.

example:

 

ID: 1 - Cocaine 6g - Inside my pocket.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by joaoivis

[Taina]

16 minutes ago, joaoivis said:

In addition to this, a command should be added to add a note on the side of the item in your /inv to describe where it is just like the stashinfo script.

example:

 

ID: 1 - Cocaine 6g - Inside my pocket.

 

This is brilliant.

[Sixty]

2 hours ago, Smilesville said:

I disagree. In my view, being permitted to infallibly view the entirety someone else's inventory at any point in time leads to enormous amounts of abuse already - which is why "/b /showitems" is so popular with robbers. Furthermore, assessing someone's inventory after a robbery will produce three problems for the singular issue it allegedly fixes.

 

Robbers who see something they missed (but also like) will:

1. Start an argument in /b demanding to know where the item was.
2. Use that knowledge in a later robbery of the same individual.
3. Alter their behavior based on whether or not a weapon still exists in the victim's inventory.

First of all, the suggestion isn’t to be able to use /showitems at “any point in time”. It’s suggesting to allow its use it only after the robbery has been completed, as an accountability check for people who are inevitably going to be dishonest during a robbery. If at that point in time, one party feels something is wrong? They make a report. It’s beneficial for both sides instead of giving an advantage to one or the other. This saves time from people making a report with zero evidence on the account of, “I think they lied about what items they had on them”. I’m not sure how this would in any way be a bad idea. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Sixty

[Smilesville]

2 hours ago, Sixty said:

First of all, the suggestion isn’t to be able to use /showitems at “any point in time”. It’s suggesting to allow its use it only after the robbery has been completed, as an accountability check for people who are inevitably going to be dishonest during a robbery. If at that point in time, one party feels something is wrong? They make a report. It’s beneficial for both sides instead of giving an advantage to one or the other. This saves time from people making a report with zero evidence on the account of, “I think they lied about what items they had on them”. I’m not sure how this would in any way be a bad idea. 

I mean what I wrote.

 

I am not in support of requiring /showitems to be used at any point in time - including but not limited to after the robbery has been completed.

 

Robbers already have an outsized advantage from the way the server is structured; doing this gives a robber further advantage they should not have.

 

Please read my post in its entirety before you quote it.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Smilesville

[Apa]

41 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

I mean what I wrote.

 

I am not in support of requiring /stashinfo to be used at any point in time - including but not limited to after the robbery has been completed.

 

Robbers already have an outsized advantage from the way the server is structured; doing this gives a robber further advantage they should not have.

 

Please read my post in its entirety before you quote it.

Can you clarify where you stash items that you don't believe would be easy to find? Unless I'm missing something the majority of any sane person's items are going to be in their pockets or a bag/purse etc if they RP having one. There are maybe a few places you could stash a CC weapon on your person. What exactly is it you think would be difficult for robbers to find?

[Sixty]

1 hour ago, Smilesville said:

I mean what I wrote.

 

I am not in support of requiring /stashinfo to be used at any point in time - including but not limited to after the robbery has been completed.

 

Robbers already have an outsized advantage from the way the server is structured; doing this gives a robber further advantage they should not have.

 

Please read my post in its entirety before you quote it.

I did read it. You’re overthinking the entire situation. It’s an OOC accountability check for people who powergame their items not being found in obvious places, not an IC advantage.
 

When /showitems is performed, the robbery is already over. There is no more IC involvement, therefore no IC advantage. It’s for reporting and accountability purposes. If there is still an issue, a report can be made with actual evidence for admins to decipher. Take your own advice. Read my post in its entirety before you quote it. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Sixty

[Smilesville]

2 minutes ago, Sixty said:

I did. I just think you’re overthinking the entire situation. It’s an OOC accountability check, not an IC advantage. When this is performed, the robbery is already over. There is no more IC involvement. Read my post in its entirety before you quote it. 

How do you propose a player uses the /showitems command if they're not close to the robber? How can you say the situation has concluded before the robber has escaped? We have a rule that you can't log for 30 minutes after a situation like this for these very reasons - the situation is ongoing through any circumstance in which the script would allow you to use the /showitems command. Therefore, any use of the command can (and will) be abused by ill-intentioned players instigating a robbery to metagame in one of the manners I described earlier.

 

If you're making a report because you think someone has items they didn't show you terribly often, you're going to attract staff attention. We need staff attention on the issue of how poorly robberies are portrayed.

 

I don't know what part of this you're not getting.

 

1 hour ago, Visceral said:

Can you clarify where you stash items that you don't believe would be easy to find? Unless I'm missing something the majority of any sane person's items are going to be in their pockets or a bag/purse etc if they RP having one. There are maybe a few places you could stash a CC weapon on your person. What exactly is it you think would be difficult for robbers to find?

I meant /showitems, my bad.

 

Within the context of /showitems, it's not about whether the item would be insanely difficult to find - it's about whether the individual emotes searching there in the heat of trying to get away with a crime. That's why you see so much running of pockets. After all, if an item is on your person, it's probably in your pocket. I've literally had an exchange with someone go something like:

 

** Mask searches your pockets.
** Which pockets?

** All of the pockets.

I'd remove the ability of police characters to use /frisk if I could, but I vehemently maintain that mandating a player use /showitems is ridiculous, regardless.