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Official rule on /showitems


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On 2/6/2021 at 2:45 AM, Topiyo said:

Robbed a few people before. They've lied about the items they had on them. One even had an entire pump shotgun and had to be admin-jailed. I'd love for /showitems to be necessary after a robbery is complete. Definitely supporting the addition.

It's as it should be done, not when the RP is being carried out, a week ago an asset grabber started robbing me and demanded to do /showitem, I told him that it was not mandatory and he reported me, which the admin gave me the reason.

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6 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

I am absolutely against the normalization of asking for /showitems in any way.

 

Let's suppose a robber asks for /showitems after a robbery and a victim acquiesces, yet the former had a concealed SNS pistol that the robber failed to locate. Would that not impact the RP of that robber in as significant a manner as asking for /showitems before even RPing a pat down?

 

All this will do is cause /b fights to ensue about who was hiding what where.

 

Leave the rule as it is. /showitems has no place in a robbery.

How would it? The implication is that their only avenue at that point is to file a report if they believe the victim purposely didnt rp the robbery correctly. This is a win-win. It stops robbers from demanding /showitems to metagame before their search, and stops victims using play to win tactics to save their items. Massively in support of this. 

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Just now, Visceral said:

How would it? The implication is that their only avenue at that point is to file a report if they believe the victim purposely didnt rp the robbery correctly. This is a win-win. It stops robbers from demanding /showitems to metagame before their search, and stops victims using play to win tactics to save their items. Massively in support of this. 

You'll never stop robbers from demanding /showitems before a search barring an explicit prohibition on it - and those who exercise their right not to use the command will invariably be subjected to a full strip search because robbers can metagame from a victim's response that they're hiding something they don't want to lose. All this will do is encourage further use of the unrealistic sorts of strip searches we already see to make sure the robber gets every single item they could potentially want.

 

The entirety of the robbery game is built around metagame. Allowing robbers to view an individual's items at any point in time is a bad idea.

 

I think /frisk was a terrible idea to give to police, and I'm not about to endorse it for robbers.

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Add a hidden attributes feature such as /hattributes for people to add a description on where they've concealed their weaponry.

 

It is difficult for you to conceal a solid gun like object and not have it found during a physical search. An observational search? Sure. Trying to get through detectors? Sure. To say a solid object on your person would not be found in a physical pat down? Absurd. That is exactly why /showitems after a robbery should be necessary. So people don't make up how they've had their SNS pistol stuffed between their ass cheeks for the past 12 hours while they've sat down, driven and danced at the local night club.

 

Who in their right mind would risk not giving up an item on their person when they're being threatened at gun point? Give up your goods and call 911 or give up your shit and take revenge or give up your shit and have a break down. Don't argue that your oddly shaped metal objects are undetectable.

 

/frisk is a fantastic feature. Most cops don't RP finding narcotics or smaller objects on you that could be flat to the touch but if you've got an ounce of weed or a firearm? Yep, they'll find it during a frisk because no one is capable of hiding those items during a physical search.

 

The purpose of small and easy to conceal firearms is that they're quick to draw and can be hidden in easier to reach places such as a coat pocket. Not that they're undetectable. 

Edited by Topiyo
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11 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

You'll never stop robbers from demanding /showitems before a search barring an explicit prohibition on it - and those who exercise their right not to use the command will invariably be subjected to a full strip search because robbers can metagame from a victim's response that they're hiding something they don't want to lose. All this will do is encourage further use of the unrealistic sorts of strip searches we already see to make sure the robber gets every single item they could potentially want.

 

The entirety of the robbery game is built around metagame. Allowing robbers to view an individual's items at any point in time is a bad idea.

 

I think /frisk was a terrible idea to give to police, and I'm not about to endorse it for robbers.

Well yeah of course I think there should be an explicit barring of /showitems before a search for this to work. It should also be made explicit that a robber can't try to continue searching after a /showitems request has been completed and they must continue the scene and file a report if they suspect wrongdoing. What youre getting at here is play to win abuse by bad RPers which occurs on both sides and isnt specific to robberies. Concealed carry weapons are not hard to find no matter where you hide them. Its an almost unrealistic advantage given to victims that they even have the potential of hiding a weapon from a robber's search, but I can see why it is in place to stop lazy robbery /mes. Any half assed pat down irl would likely discover a concealed carry weapon. The fact of the matter is some robbers will try to metagame items, some victims will try to play to win to retain them. At least this will add some much needed consistency to the understanding of acceptable process. There will be teething problems for sure but its definitely not any worse of an idea than what currently occurs. 

Edited by Visceral
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45 minutes ago, Visceral said:

Concealed carry weapons are not hard to find no matter where you hide them. Its an almost unrealistic advantage given to victims that they even have the potential of hiding a weapon from a robber's search, but I can see why it is in place to stop lazy robbery /mes. Any half assed pat down irl would likely discover a concealed carry weapon.

As someone who's been the subject of half-assed patdowns IRL with a concealed weapon about 5 times or so, I can tell you the inverse is actually true - more often than not, they actually don't find it at all. And that's just a bouncer at a club. The idea that someone can pat you down effectively with one hand (you know, because the other one is holding the gun) in the span of a few seconds is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

My opinion is hardly empirical evidence, I understand, but I'm sure we can all agree that finding every item on a person 100% of the time when they are searched is absurd - and yet that's where we seem to be as a server. The solution to the issues surrounding robberies is more nuanced than this, and I don't believe "not any worse than what currently occurs" is a good standard to have when considering suggestions.

 

Especially considering the rampant robbery metagame we have already. The mere act of patting someone down by yourself with a gun pointed at them could be construed as metagame, since you know they'll be punished if they dare to act in a realistic manner that's outside the realms of how staff choose to routinely adjudicate fear RP - thereby removing any element of risk to you.

 

I'm tired of the both-sides-ism we get from these discussions.

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/showitems at some point is necessary, sorry. People are just dishonest sometimes and this keeps them in check. It’s purely an OOC check for accountability. In this suggestion, the robbery is already over once /showitems is used, so they shouldn’t be allowed to go back and search again. If someone still thinks something is wrong or items were withheld when they should’ve been found, a report can be made with the proper evidence. It appeases both ends of the situation. I see nothing wrong with this. Accountability must be upheld. There’s too many people with P2W attitudes.

Edited by Sixty
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26 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

As someone who's been the subject of half-assed patdowns IRL with a concealed weapon about 5 times or so, I can tell you the inverse is actually true - more often than not, they actually don't find it at all. And that's just a bouncer at a club. The idea that someone can pat you down effectively with one hand (you know, because the other one is holding the gun) in the span of a few seconds is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

My opinion is hardly empirical evidence, I understand, but I'm sure we can all agree that finding every item on a person 100% of the time when they are searched is absurd - and yet that's where we seem to be as a server. The solution to the issues surrounding robberies is more nuanced than this, and I don't believe "not any worse than what currently occurs" is a good standard to have when considering suggestions.

 

Especially considering the rampant robbery metagame we have already. The mere act of patting someone down by yourself with a gun pointed at them could be construed as metagame, since you know they'll be punished if they dare to act in a realistic manner that's outside the realms of how staff choose to routinely adjudicate fear RP - thereby removing any element of risk to you.

 

I'm tired of the both-sides-ism we get from these discussions.

To clarify, I wasn't saying I believe this suggestion is capped at "not any worse", I think its a major improvement. I was disagreeing that you believed it would be detrimental. The "rampant robbery" issue will never be solved until there is a major focus on improving the opportunities illegal RPers have on this server. The alleged focus on this issue moving forward this year is a welcome announcement for sure. I would be very hesitant to believe your experience with CC but that conversation isnt going to go anywhere meaningful in a hurry. 

I personally cant see any major issue with this. The both sides isms have merit whether you like them or not. Robbers MG and victims play to win. At least this places an order on the scene that must be followed. Victims hiding items in every random orifice on their body to avoid losing them is just as much of a silly portrayal as a robber doing a secret service level patdown with a gun in one hand. This suggestion is not going to solve either issue but it creates more clarity than what we currently have.

Edited by Visceral
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I don't think you should have to type out a 250 word /me to rp searching somebody and have access to their /showitems, but you should atleast put some type of effort into what you're roleplaying before /showitems is even considered.

 

There's also the issue of players lying about what they have on them. There's only so many places you can hide certain weapons (Such as pistols) so realistically if you're searched thoroughly IC, the pistol should still be found. That's the only reason I believe /showitems should be a thing.

17 hours ago, Jura said:

the issue with that is that if they don't have a large dufflebag on their character, how are they meant to RP it being on them, as you would obviously see it and not need them to tell you where it is. nor would someone be roaming around the streets carrying a pump shotgun.

yeah but the point is that what's on you is on you, I was once arrested while unknowingly having a shotgun on me, I had to roleplay it being on me, I don't see why a robbery victim shouldn't have to simply because realistically you wouldn't be able to carry it as easily.

 

Oh and FYI, some shotguns can easily fit down your pants. You're gonna walk and stand awkwardly, but it'll still fit. So it's not entirely out there.

 

There's also the issue of cunts rping robberies simply for items. The vast majority of times I've committed robberies it's been for money. Half the time I'll just rp taking their wallet and leaving, it usually makes for decent RP scenes when you're not just full patting them down in the middle of the street like you're some sort of army soldier.

Edited by Garras Up
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