Divide between illegal/legal role players

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

As someone stuck in the middle - getting called a filthy legal ERP hound for disagreeing with illegal player's opinions and getting called an ignorant "/b showitems" robber for disagreeing with legal players, there's nothing much you can do.

 

Normally I'd say pretending stuff like this doesn't happen is bad but it's honestly just petty bullshit from both sides, my own side included, and as long as it's not messing with IG/IC motivations it's honestly just best to ignore it. 

 

[Pathway]

25 minutes ago, cracked said:

bro this sounds like a you problem, jk but

nah bro we all gucci, everybody's chillin

issa forum, is not that deep

(unless it goes too far, obv)

in ^^ that case, just report.

 

[Exploits]

4 minutes ago, Rumbunctious said:

Rinse and repeat in other facets of the game such as shared events, other groups, etc.

 

Everything to role-play with groups effectively already exists. Unless we're missing some massive organizational hole in our systems, or there is something entirely lacking in the script, then the issue isn't coordinating 'groups' around 'issues' but to stop forming groups solely around said invented issues.

 

Legitimately at this time the biggest barrier to seeing more role-play in game is the insistence by certain parties that the role-play they claim to see and encounter is 'so bad' that they refuse to participate. These non-participants have no actual people to report, no real broken rules to point to -- they are just very loud while providing very little.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Exploits

[Exploits]

Just now, Rumbunctious said:

Did you read the first 90% of my post or just see that last sentence and decide to shoot it down? Because what you answered is not at all what I said. I'm not suggesting we add more groups. I'm suggesting we facilitate more communication between that groups that already exist.

Yeah, by hand-picking individuals which, when individuals are put together, amalgamate into this amazing entity known as a group.

[Declan]

Quote

You have to look at why it is that the LSPD despises illegal RPers and the same in reverse? It might have something to do with the fact that they never communicate due to not sharing any platforms of communication bar the forums.

 

The LSSD was founded upon the basis of catering towards illegal rpers and providing quality police roleplay. At launch, about 90% of us had roleplayed illegally before so we knew how to interact with illegal rpers whereas with the LSPD, a lot of members haven't tried illegal rp. I'll leave you with a post I made in the past in regards to FM & the divide between legal and illegal rpers:

 

"A big part of the problem is the fact that most LEO RPers haven't actually experienced illegal roleplay and thus, don't see things from the criminals' perspective whereas someone who has been on either side is more likely to be able to roleplay a proper police officer and not a "robo-cop". I know people who haven't done anything illegal in their whole time on GTAW and I just think that's wrong. How can you garner up their side if you've not experienced it yourself? This, in turn, makes illegal RPers frustrated when cops display piss-poor RP and in that regard, I can understand why there is a negative relationship.

A lot of newer players come from medium-to-low RP servers and their first factions are usually PD/SD/FD. They're still stuck in that other servers mentality and will often see the server as a cops and robbers server instead of what it is. A heavy RP server."

 

I think the concept of what you suggested is a good idea and will give people an insight on illegal rp instead of it being "us vs. them" all the time.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Declan

[Exploits]

9 minutes ago, Rumbunctious said:

You have to look at why it is that the LSPD despises illegal RPers and the same in reverse? It might have something to do with the fact that they never communicate due to not sharing any platforms of communication bar the forums.

 

Again, they could already do this if they want to. LSSD didn't do well with illegal RPers because they 'communicated with them', they did well with illegal RPers because some of them are/were illegal RPers. There was an understanding from the top-down that people who role-play as law enforcement either don't know or don't care how their role-play is seen by or affects others, and the intention was to recruit people who did understand these impacts and didn't blindly attempt to score arrests with bare-minimum interaction.

 

Nothing is keeping the current LSPD from also introducing these ideas and reaching out. They simply hadn't. And that's not a failing on LFM/IFM, that's a failing on the LSPD's leadership to look anywhere outside of themselves at the time. Just take a peek at Lagorio's embarrassing attempt to save face with his 'retirement' thread. There's a substantial amount of people in that thread who still hold positions of importance in the PD who are adamant that he either did nothing wrong at all, or was removed for "making the role-play better". They sealed themselves in their own echo chamber. LFM did not do that to them, I assure you. The failure was ultimately their own inability to not buy their own bullshit and actually admit to errors and the consequential perception people would have of them: no self-awareness, no intention to really improve internally (beyond their own dictations and decisions), and an insistence that the problem is 'other people'.

[bonk]

Just now, Exploits said:

 

Again, they could already do this if they want to. LSSD didn't do well with illegal RPers because they 'communicated with them', they did well with illegal RPers because some of them are/were illegal RPers. There was an understanding from the top-down that people who role-play as law enforcement either don't know or don't care how their role-play is seen by or affects others, and the intention was to recruit people who did understand these impacts and didn't blindly attempt to score arrests with bare-minimum interaction.

 

Nothing is keeping the current LSPD from also introducing these ideas and reaching out. They simply hadn't. And that's not a failing on LFM/IFM, that's a failing on the LSPD's leadership to look anywhere outside of themselves at the time. Just take a peek at Lagorio's embarrassing attempt to save face with his 'retirement' thread. There's a substantial amount of people in that thread who still hold positions of importance in the PD who are adamant that he either did nothing wrong at all, or was removed for "making the role-play better". They sealed themselves in their own echo chamber. LFM did not do that to them, I assure you. The failure was ultimately their own inability to not buy their own bullshit and actually admit to errors and the consequential perception people would have of them: no self-awareness, no intention to really improve internally (beyond their own dictations and decisions), and an insistence that the problem is 'other people'.

Whilst what you said was not actually incorrect, it wasn’t totally right either. SD did succeed as a result of communicating between us and the illegal role play community. We have several sections on the forums for inmates to be able to discuss/suggest things and we also have a section for the inmates on our discord to voice concerns/feedback with the Unit Commander of the county jail takes very seriously and compiles them into a list.

[Exploits]

6 minutes ago, Blowin' Hollows said:

Whilst what you said was not actually incorrect, it wasn’t totally right either. SD did succeed as a result of communicating between us and the illegal role play community. We have several sections on the forums for inmates to be able to discuss/suggest things and we also have a section for the inmates on our discord to voice concerns/feedback with the Unit Commander of the county jail takes very seriously and compiles them into a list.

But it didn't start by 'opening communications', it started with an understanding that everybody is here to role-play and that nobody is really 'against' anybody else. You've seen the LSPD & You thread. How much of that do you think actually got brought forward or implemented in any meaningful way? You can 'open communications' and still be entirely dismissive of what's being communicated, and that's what tends to happen when you presume it all comes from a place of spite or from 'the enemy', or what have you. The core mentality needs to change first and foremost before structural changes matter at all. We could all have had a personal private mailbox to the chief of police to 'communicate'  but it's pointless if it's set to automatically redirect all their mail to the trashcan or only ever opened so they can scoff and laugh.

 

Edit: What I'm saying is, if we open these channels to communicate solely on the notion that these are disparate groups that need to make concessions, then we've already lost the plot. What really needs to be reconciled isn't our lack of communication, but our failure to see our shared goal of making role-play interesting and engaging for all parties involved.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Exploits

[bonk]

1 minute ago, Exploits said:

But it didn't start by 'opening communications', it started with an understanding that everybody is here to role-play and that nobody is really 'against' anybody else. You've seen the LSPD & You thread. How much of that do you think actually got brought forward or implemented in any meaningful way? You can 'open communications' and still be entirely dismissive of what's being communicated, and that's what tends to happen when you presume it all comes from a place of spite or from 'the enemy', or what have you. The core mentality needs to change first and foremost before structural changes matter at all. We could all have had a personal private mailbox to the chief of police to 'communicate'  but it's pointless if it's set to automatically redirect all their mail to the trashcan or only ever opened so they can scoff and laugh.

That is completely understandable. That also is the intention of this thread in hopes of finding solutions and helping these parties assimilate to better understand each other to get rid of this divide.

[Trupiano]

I guess some people might consider me as one of those toxic whiners who derail threads. But like other have said, I don't really take kindly to people bashing illegal RPers as a whole and when people make suggestions or comments that I feel would have drastically negative effects on illegal RP I can't resist the urge to chime in. In my experience, not speaking up is what leads to bad ideas being implemented.

 

37 minutes ago, Nervous said:

Give me some practical examples of why communications between IFM and LFM will impact random players commenting on forum?

I really completely fail to see the connection here. As someone who sees all the massive amount of work done by both teams in the backstage, I hate reading random comments like this.

Two months ago people (including myself) were whining and bitching about the lack of illegal updates. Not even really the lack of them but because the only time we even heard about progress was through offhand comments you'd make in discord or through the people who are close to you. Since you made that announcement saying illegal updates would be a priority in 2021 I've definitely noticed a down tick in the amount of developer and update bashing across every form of communication used by the community.

 

Communication from staff calms the communities nerves. You may see all the massive amounts of work being done by both teams but we don't, so we can be told "Oh they're doing a lot you can't see!" but unless we see something those are just empty words. It definitely doesn't feel like either team is doing much from a players prospective and that's the exact reason you see random comments like this. People have no idea what's happening and so they assume the worst.