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Making the headshot rule official


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Resident devil's advocate here.

 

Being shot in the head will rarely kill someone instantly - sorry, but that's a Hollywood myth. There are so many other factors that go into it.

 

There's really only a small triangle formed by your eyes and the bottom of your nose where, when shot dead on from the front, you will be incapacitated instantaneously by conventional small arms fire. Sure, a shot to the head has a greater chance of killing you, but this is adequately represented by the increased damage.

 

When you start taking about anti personnel rounds and whatnot, one shot headshots killing someone starts to look more likely, but I'm staunchly against any rule that would standardize this so simply.

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Having any headshot and being in downed state should be a death. 1 or 100 damage, doesn't matter.   To clarify: If you get shot in the face but you're not locked in the wounded state, you're

Hello.   As you may be aware, if you take a headshot that's above 55, 50, or 45 (numbers vary based on who you talk to), you're forced to RP death even though it's a headshot.   Th

If someone survives with a headshot in their damages, it'd be better to be roleplayed as grazing the skull, or something to the lines of that. The skull's surprisingly tough, anyways.    It

5 hours ago, Smilesville said:

Resident devil's advocate here.

 

Being shot in the head will rarely kill someone instantly - sorry, but that's a Hollywood myth. There are so many other factors that go into it.

 

There's really only a small triangle formed by your eyes and the bottom of your nose where, when shot dead on from the front, you will be incapacitated instantaneously by conventional small arms fire. Sure, a shot to the head has a greater chance of killing you, but this is adequately represented by the increased damage.

 

When you start taking about anti personnel rounds and whatnot, one shot headshots killing someone starts to look more likely, but I'm staunchly against any rule that would standardize this so simply.

There might be a few exceptions but we can't set rules based on exceptions. Sure, some people will survive being shot in the head but most won't. During shootouts, being shot in the head will most likely result in the bullet passing through the skull and at the very least, creating a massive hemorrhage which will result in a quick death rather than in instant one.

 

Most people don't get headshot right onto a gurney and into the hospital where they go into operation and get saved but rather they are shot by police, for example, and lie on the ground with three bullets to the chest, two to the limbs and two to the head and want to roleplay surviving because some guy in Randomcity did 50 years ago. That's why a rule like this should exist.

 

I've rarely seen people properly RPing their injuries - if they're running from the police, one bullet actually passed through their whole body 10 times and now they're dead and if they're about to lose items, the ten shots to the head actually grazed each angle of it. We need rules to stop stuff like that from happening.

 

Plus - the probability of a bullet grazing your head is veeeery small. If a bullet is fired in your direction, statistically speaking, it has a lot of space where it could go. If it's fired straight to your head, it might hit it. The chance of it hitting the edge of the head while making little to no damage, or even just a bruise that you just patch up and go about your day, is almost zero.

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Just now, Entity said:

There might be a few exceptions but we can't set rules based on exceptions. Sure, some people will survive being shot in the head but most won't. During shootouts, being shot in the head will most likely result in the bullet passing through the skull and at the very least, creating a massive hemorrhage which will result in a quick death rather than in instant one. [...]

I've rarely seen people properly RPing their injuries - if they're running from the police, one bullet actually passed through their whole body 10 times and now they're dead and if they're about to lose items, the ten shots to the head actually grazed each angle of it. We need rules to stop stuff like that from happening. [...]

Plus - the probability of a bullet grazing your head is veeeery small. If a bullet is fired in your direction, statistically speaking, it has a lot of space where it could go. If it's fired straight to your head, it might hit it. The chance of it hitting the edge of the head while making little to no damage, or even just a bruise that you just patch up and go about your day, is almost zero.

Setting a rule based on an exception is not quite the same as declining to set a rule based upon the fact that exceptions exist - and not a statistically insignificant set of exceptions, either. True, headshots are fatal 90% of the time, but that also means 1 in 10 people survive a headshot. For reference, only 3.8% of adults in the US identify as LGBT, but it would be equally silly to implement a rule saying you have to roll a dice every time you create a character to determine their sexuality. Like sexuality, whether or not you survive a headshot is not based on pure chance, but rather a complicated amalgamation of factors none of us are qualified to quantify. Telling someone shot with a stray bullet from across a parking lot they must RP death even though the "headshot" was on the chin sounds like a good way to cause a great deal of well-founded grief through poor ruling.

 

If someone isn't RPing their injuries, that's already a rule - creating more rules isn't going to help. If your assertion is that your interpretation of proper injury portrayal is more correct than theirs, I would gently suggest it's not worth breaking out the medical charts to determine whether someone portrays a PK or not.

 

Even the idea that "the higher the damage, the lower the chance of survival" is a fallacy in that higher velocity shots to the head yield a statistically more survivable injury than lower velocity shots, given the same payload.

 

Again - to craft a rule that summarizes these intricacies so simply when there's really no appreciable difference in the end result really isn't something I can support.

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7 hours ago, Smilesville said:

Resident devil's advocate here.

 

Being shot in the head will rarely kill someone instantly - sorry, but that's a Hollywood myth. There are so many other factors that go into it.

 

There's really only a small triangle formed by your eyes and the bottom of your nose where, when shot dead on from the front, you will be incapacitated instantaneously by conventional small arms fire. Sure, a shot to the head has a greater chance of killing you, but this is adequately represented by the increased damage.

 

When you start taking about anti personnel rounds and whatnot, one shot headshots killing someone starts to look more likely, but I'm staunchly against any rule that would standardize this so simply.

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excuse me sorry. Headshots are highly more likely to end up in your death, statistically proven. This doesn't make much sense... What you're saying... 

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57 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Setting a rule based on an exception is not quite the same as declining to set a rule based upon the fact that exceptions exist - and not a statistically insignificant set of exceptions, either. True, headshots are fatal 90% of the time, but that also means 1 in 10 people survive a headshot. For reference, only 3.8% of adults in the US identify as LGBT, but it would be equally silly to implement a rule saying you have to roll a dice every time you create a character to determine their sexuality. Like sexuality, whether or not you survive a headshot is not based on pure chance, but rather a complicated amalgamation of factors none of us are qualified to quantify. Telling someone shot with a stray bullet from across a parking lot they must RP death even though the "headshot" was on the chin sounds like a good way to cause a great deal of well-founded grief through poor ruling.

 

If someone isn't RPing their injuries, that's already a rule - creating more rules isn't going to help. If your assertion is that your interpretation of proper injury portrayal is more correct than theirs, I would gently suggest it's not worth breaking out the medical charts to determine whether someone portrays a PK or not.

 

Even the idea that "the higher the damage, the lower the chance of survival" is a fallacy in that higher velocity shots to the head yield a statistically more survivable injury than lower velocity shots, given the same payload.

 

Again - to craft a rule that summarizes these intricacies so simply when there's really no appreciable difference in the end result really isn't something I can support.

But that's the whole point of rules and that's why exceptions are exceptions. There was a documentary of someone who skydived and their parachute didn't open, fell straight to the ground front a few thousand feet high and survived, now they live a normal life. Does that mean we should remove the powergaming rule since jumping out of a plane can be survived? If someone robs a person in real life and they don't like their face so they kill them, should we remove the rob & kill rule? Why do we have a rule against deathmatching in place if we have serial killers? I can go on and on about most likely every single rule. The point is that just because exceptions exist, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have rules in place.

 

The problem here is that there's no right or wrong way to RP these injuries. It's not about me, personally, deciding how someone is RPing their injuries, but about those people deciding how they RP their injuries from a subjective point of view. They're not objectively seeing a wound and portray the effects, but rather portray the wound itself in any way they see fit which is most of the times, knowingly or not, a highly biased portrayal. I've seen people get gunned down and RP being full of grazes, I've seen people get shot in the shoulder and RP the bullet passing twice through God knows what artery and dying on the spot, thus not going to jail. That's what letting people RP their injuries freely does. Sure, some will do it properly, but most won't. That's why we have rules.

 

Rules also set clear boundaries between what's acceptable and what's not. If there's no rules regarding how to properly RP a gunshot wound, people will not know how to while others keep will reporting and arguing back and forth about how the wound is and isn't fatal.

 

I also don't at all believe that the difference in damage is due to velocity. You don't get shot twice and get two different damage values because the bullets moved faster or slower. That's just a script limitation.

 

As a side not, lots of people who do end up surviving a gunshot wound to the head won't ever live a normal life again. I've never, in my years of being on RP servers, not even once, one single time, seen someone RP massive permanent damages as a result of an injury (except for /me has a scar).

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9 hours ago, ayame said:

excuse me sorry. Headshots are highly more likely to end up in your death, statistically proven. This doesn't make much sense... What you're saying... 

The survival rate is more like ten percent, but that's secondary to a hard rule about how someone has to RP a shot to the head regardless of the circumstances.
 

8 hours ago, Entity said:

But that's the whole point of rules and that's why exceptions are exceptions. -snip-

Like I said, 10% isn't a statistical anomaly. All the examples you cite are well outside the norm; they don't occur anywhere near the frequency of 10%. If you're so aggrieved that someone survives a shot to the head, by all means, break out the medical charts - but making it a hard and fast rule?

 

Absolutely not.

 

Only 3.8% of people identify as LGBT IRL; does that mean we lock alternate sexual preferences behind an application now in the name of realism?
Only 16% of people IRL are entrepreneurs, does that mean we create a rule against starting your own business?


Again, a hard and fast rule is a recipe for some pretty well-founded grief. If people aren't RPing their injuries, more rules won't make them want to do it any more.

 

8 hours ago, Entity said:

I've seen people get gunned down and RP being full of grazes, I've seen people get shot in the shoulder and RP the bullet passing twice through God knows what artery and dying on the spot, thus not going to jail. That's what letting people RP their injuries freely does. Sure, some will do it properly, but most won't. That's why we have rules.

Again, you're elevating your own opinion of what's "proper" quite a bit. If 100% realism is our goal here, I don't think you'll like what happens when we take that to the logical extreme.

 

I've seen people go to jail for armed robbery and get out in 4 days IG.
I've seen people go weeks without eating or drinking IG.

I've seen people with body types clearly designed to give them an excuse to have an edge in a fight.

 

We deal with all these unrealistic idiosyncrasies on purpose. You're not the one who has to sit and RP the injury for weeks on end in a hospital - at some point, whether through PK or amazing tales of survival, people need an excuse to get on with their day and keep playing the game.

 

Unless someone is trying to wiggle their way out of a CK, I'd leave it alone - but you can deal with that on a case-by-case basis without raising the mortality rate of Los Santos beyond the already staggeringly unrealistic number.

 

8 hours ago, Entity said:

Rules also set clear boundaries between what's acceptable and what's not. If there's no rules regarding how to properly RP a gunshot wound, people will not know how to while others keep will reporting and arguing back and forth about how the wound is and isn't fatal. [...]

I've never [...] seen someone RP massive permanent damages as a result of an injury (except for /me has a scar).

At the end of the day, it's two people on the internet arguing about a thing that matters even less than this discussion here. Unless it's a CK we're dealing with, I applaud the realism police for taking such an interest in a case that won't even matter in 24 hours.

 

Or is your intent to make sure half of the server properly portrays a vegetable? All you're going to do is increase the number of people who throw their hands up and say "(s)he's dead" because they know the consequences of survival far outstrip anything else the server has ever mandated someone engage in.

 

Not everyone here is a medical professional. Or maybe they're not that great with search engines. Maybe they have a good reason why they think their character survived - is this really such a burden on you, personally, that you'd saddle the server with yet another rule with unintended ramifications?

 

8 hours ago, Entity said:

I also don't at all believe that the difference in damage is due to velocity. You don't get shot twice and get two different damage values because the bullets moved faster or slower. That's just a script limitation.

This is in real life, not in-game. A bullet that perforates the brain (that is, enters through one end and exits the other) produces a more survivable result when compared to one that simply penetrates and becomes something that requires surgery to remove.

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