[Guide] Extortion

[SiMo]

8 hours ago, Chipsdose said:

I don't think it's extorting someone if you demand 1000$ per week. I would call that begging. I doubt anyone would risk his life over 1000$ which he might even have to share with his group, kinda unrealistic. You should honestly rethink that frame.

Other than that I like some points in your guide and others I'm not that much a fan of.

I had this happen when one organization wanted to prove superiority over another, therefore small amount of money was just the sign of superiority. It is totally up to organization but personally, I would never go for such small amount indeed. 🙂

[SiMo]

7 hours ago, Greyfeather said:

I have some legitimate questions for the creator of the guide. If I, as a business owner with absolutely no organized crime affiliations and no ethnic ties to the community in which my business is conducted (Rockford Hills), am approached by someone trying to extort me and I call the police, is this the type of situation where you should be granted a CK permission against me?

 

 

CKs is something that admins handle. This would not be good reason for CK, one should follow the steps further. If one finds out about you calling the cops maybe sending a stronger message such as burning a car, shooting at your house, sending threatening messages and such would suffice. Destroying your business (not burning) would do the trick too. Organized crime here should show YOU that police department will not help you.

 

7 hours ago, Greyfeather said:

Or, let's say I report your character to the police and your character is arrested and goes to jail for...uhm...24 hours, does this mean the extortion went "bad for you" and that you should aim for the character kill? And be granted permission?

 

Extortion did go bad in this situation. Depending on the approach, CK application could be sent. Keep in mind that, probably, only one or a few members got arrested, depending on the size of the criminal organization they might send people your way. I had situation in which three of my men were arrested after a long investigation and on a set-up. CK app was posted and granted later on because the rest of the organization found out. If one gets arrested in 2-3 days of attempting extortion, then PK would be fine... However if it's deep investigation that takes time then I'd go for CK. Keep in mind, this is my personal opinion, it's always up to admins. 

 

7 hours ago, Greyfeather said:

What I'm trying to understand is whether, according to your understanding of good extortion RP, anyone calling the police is liable to a CK - or for that matter, even a PK?

 

Snitching... If you get someone arrested then yes, expect revenge. If they find out you calling the police, then further steps should be taken.

 

7 hours ago, Greyfeather said:

If this is true, then how is LS any different to a city in a mostly lawless third world country?

This totally depends on LSPD/LSSD and their detectives. Law enforcement better = crime rate drops, simple as that. 

 

 

Good think would be if someone gets PKed over extortion that he/she can keep their character as long as they don't open a business they were PKed for, for like a few weeks. I have stumbled upon so many abusers that just wanted to get PKed and even pushed RP that way so they can continue opening business without being approached by the same men.

 

Thanks for the input! 🙂 

Edited January 11, 2021 by SiMo

[nostalgic]

There's many other ways to gain money or control over a business other than telling them to pay you ten grand a week or there's gonna be damage done to the owner or the business. This is the most lazy, short-termed and boring way I can ever think of when it comes to extortion. It is also the best way to attract unwanted attention from law enforcement. 

 

Let's say it's a bar, which is the most typical business on the server. Instead of getting paid ten grand a week for doing fuck all and provide zero roleplay for anyone else than the guy picking up a few wads every friday, you could start befriending the owner, familiarize yourself with the business and the people coming in and out before anything. This bar requires a few things to operate, which any organization could offer to cover. Anything from supplying a bar with stolen liquor or bouncers, dancers, whatever your organization has to offer can be a potential win-win situation and will create roleplay for more characters. 

 

All of a sudden there's multiple links involved around this bar, that could generate weeks or even months of roleplay and development. 

 

If we keep ourselves trapped in the mindset that extortion is "pay me or this.. and this..- will happen" mentality, anyone should be embarrased to call themselves an organized crime group.

 

[Cypher]

2 hours ago, Jägerbomb said:

There's many other ways to gain money or control over a business other than telling them to pay you ten grand a week or there's gonna be damage done to the owner or the business. This is the most lazy, short-termed and boring way I can ever think of when it comes to extortion. It is also the best way to attract unwanted attention from law enforcement. 

 

Let's say it's a bar, which is the most typical business on the server. Instead of getting paid ten grand a week for doing fuck all and provide zero roleplay for anyone else than the guy picking up a few wads every friday, you could start befriending the owner, familiarize yourself with the business and the people coming in and out before anything. This bar requires a few things to operate, which any organization could offer to cover. Anything from supplying a bar with stolen liquor or bouncers, dancers, whatever your organization has to offer can be a potential win-win situation and will create roleplay for more characters. 

 

All of a sudden there's multiple links involved around this bar, that could generate weeks or even months of roleplay and development. 

 

If we keep ourselves trapped in the mindset that extortion is "pay me or this.. and this..- will happen" mentality, anyone should be embarrased to call themselves an organized crime group.

 

Say it louder so the people in the back can hear you lol. Honestly this should be put in the rules and made a policy. People say rules aren’t needed but in this case I’d say they are wrong. Obviously the hands-off approach isn’t working. Extortion should have guidelines written out so that these “pay me or die” situations don’t ever come to fruition or people actually understand it can be reported. I bet this happens all too often and no one gets reported except on the rare occasion. Organized criminal groups should be held to a higher standard on this as creating role play should be first and foremost. Showing up once a week and asking for the weekly cut and leaving? Useless for everyone. 
 

@Shanks Thoughts?

Edited January 11, 2021 by Cypher

[Ink]

Since this is a guide, and since @Jägerbombmade that excellent post above to talk about more of the actual ways for criminal factions to gain IC control over businesses in a way that's interesting, and @Shanksgot tagged by our friend Cypher above:

 

We're playing on a heavy text-based RP community. All of us players are equal here, we're all people looking to have a good time with our free time playing on an RP server. As much as possible, your RP should be oriented around building up our world and the people around us rather than tearing them down because this is what keeps RP going. Hiding behind "oh well it happens in real life in Serbia back in the 90's!" or saying something like "oh well it's an IC issue you should appeal to your lawmakers and police department to do more but until then of course we will abuse it!" is a reductive OOC point of view because what you're essentially saying, whether or not you mean to, is "I don't care about the roleplay experience of other people, and I believe that everyone else is on this server for me to exploit to improve my own RP experience at their expense."

 

This thread is full of people saying that this current system does not work and is not fun or enjoyable. It's not realistic, it's not dynamic, and my favorite way to describe it is having some upstart mafia come by and extort your business on this server is essentially like your business catching an STD. It's itchy, it's annoying, there's nothing you can really do but give in.

 

In the real world, today, in modern day America, real organized crime groups frankly make way too much money doing much smarter and low-risk things than extortion. Extortion is small beans and very highly visible. High heat, low reward, If one of my real life businesses was approached by any extortion attempts, which hey, in over 6 years of running businesses I've never seen that happen ever, I would safely assume that I'm being approached by a fucking crackhead, because that's the only dumbass who'll come and risk over 10 years in jail by asking me for, what... $300 a week? 

 

But hey, let's say you really want to RP extortion. Fine! The way a modern organization would go about doing "extortion" is--as people said in this thread--though legal fronts. But let's say you're too dumb and disorganized to roleplay a legal front more sophisticated than a shitty coffee shop with 3 tables inside of it which only your gang and their friends come to. Fine. I understand it's a lot of work to run a legal business realistically on this server. The most constructive way you can roleplay "extorting" a business is just by showing up with your goons, hanging out, befriending the patrons, befriending the owner, and progressively offering more and more favors until, would you look at that, the owner of this business is now within your sphere of influence. 

 

In real life, criminal organizations draw in "legal" civilians because they slowly corrupt them. It always starts off small, just a little favor here, a little gift here. Oh you need a loan? No problem. Hey, you look so tense, let me call one of my girls to show you a good time. Oh you like cards? My boys and I throw a game every Thursday night, you should come by. Hey, Christmas is coming up you probably need some gifts, I ah, got some TVs I can let go to you for really cheap, don't ask where they came from. Oh, that guy who keeps opening up his bar at the same time as you, probably really annoying for business--you know, we can do something about that for you. 

 

Will Johnny "the Business Owner" call the cops on you after he's benefited from your crimes for a long relationship with your organization?  Well, the real life mafias of the world seem to think "probably not."

 

And look at that, imagine what a crazy concept: By doing that kind of stuff above, the kind of stuff I've talked about, or that @Jägerbombhas talked about, you're creating roleplay. You're generating RP for your gang, for the business, for whatever people you introduce. You're helping build the world we're playing in rather than being a bit like the Gonorrhea of business RP. This is the kind of RP that people log off of the server at night saying "I had fun tonight, that was cool."

I know everyone in this thread really cares about "realism" and "heavy RP" and "realistic portrayal" and not stuff like "muh precious assets" -- but can we agree the most important thing is that everyone has fun spending their free time logging into this server and roleplaying? Because if people aren't having fun, they stop playing. And this server loses. If you make playing someone's business to be a shitty time, they'll probably give up, and this server will lose that business, and maybe even the people who were roleplaying around it. Especially in the other extortion RP thread, we see a lot of OOC tough guys talking with a lot of bluster about how their RP as extortionists should take precedent over anyone else's RP, I just wonder if they seriously think that the fun of another human being (a fellow nerd) playing a video game with them should sit there and play only to bolster their fragile and insecure egos.

 

[A_Acko]

4 hours ago, Jägerbomb said:

There's many other ways to gain money or control over a business other than telling them to pay you ten grand a week or there's gonna be damage done to the owner or the business. This is the most lazy, short-termed and boring way I can ever think of when it comes to extortion. It is also the best way to attract unwanted attention from law enforcement. 

 

Let's say it's a bar, which is the most typical business on the server. Instead of getting paid ten grand a week for doing fuck all and provide zero roleplay for anyone else than the guy picking up a few wads every friday, you could start befriending the owner, familiarize yourself with the business and the people coming in and out before anything. This bar requires a few things to operate, which any organization could offer to cover. Anything from supplying a bar with stolen liquor or bouncers, dancers, whatever your organization has to offer can be a potential win-win situation and will create roleplay for more characters. 

 

All of a sudden there's multiple links involved around this bar, that could generate weeks or even months of roleplay and development. 

 

If we keep ourselves trapped in the mindset that extortion is "pay me or this.. and this..- will happen" mentality, anyone should be embarrased to call themselves an organized crime group.

 

 

 

Your character Robert Bonfiglio has Steals and Deals dealership with vehicles worth $100,000. On top of that you have over $1M in the bank and there you are bartending in a bar that is not yours.
Your 'mobbed up' character wears a suit, but asspulls guns and kills people at his own business lot during an opening. He even comes back later to clean up the crime-scene and get rid of any evidence.

 

[21:39:37] Robert Bonfiglio says: Two whiskey's gonna be 600.

 

So much from your extortion roleplay:

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by A_Acko

[nostalgic]

1 hour ago, A_Acko said:

 

 

Your character Robert Bonfiglio has Steals and Deals dealership with vehicles worth $100,000. On top of that you have over $1M in the bank and there you are bartending in a bar that is not yours.
Your 'mobbed up' character wears a suit, but asspulls guns and kills people at his own business lot during an opening. He even comes back later to clean up the crime-scene and get rid of any evidence.

 

[21:39:37] Robert Bonfiglio says: Two whiskey's gonna be 600.

 

So much from your extortion roleplay:

 

 

If you want to throw mud instead of taking against advise on the basics of organized crime, that's up to you. 

 

Even if I had $100,000,000 in my bank account I would never hand it out to someone who claims themselves to be peacekeepers of the neighborhood and try to pull off an extortion in less than ten minutes. 

 

My character is a leaseholder of a dealership lot, does that make him a millionare? No. Does my character wear the cheapest looking suit? Yes. He's a salesman. Is it unrealistic to invest money into a bar after I had to close my dealership for a good while due to this situation? No. 

 

Quote

 

Aerin Konstantinos says: I'm afraid you're in no position to make demands, /friend/.

Aerin Konstantinos says: Me and some business associates enjoy keeping the peace here, in town.

Aerin Konstantinos says [low]: I advise you to accept the offer. Or things will go south, regarding business opportunities.

Robert Bonfiglio says [low]: You told me exactly nothing except you're a little peacekeeper.

Aerin Konstantinos says [low]: Ten thousand, my good man. Surely you make more than that on the daily.

 

 

One of the customers at my lot, Adam Hilt, pushed Aerin away. The result of this incident;

 

 

As you can see from the video, I was simply defending my property and I don't believe I was unreasonable. Four against one, and Aerin opened fire on me while I sent one to Grgur's knee.

 

I wasn't ever going to publish this video since I thought you had learned that it was such a poor attempt, but since you have a need to dig into it I only feel it's reasonable everyone gets to see the story behind your comment.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Jägerbomb

[Greyfeather]

6 hours ago, SiMo said:

Good think would be if someone gets PKed over extortion that he/she can keep their character as long as they don't open a business they were PKed for, for like a few weeks. I have stumbled upon so many abusers that just wanted to get PKed and even pushed RP that way so they can continue opening business without being approached by the same men.

Could it also be that they are RPing what an ordinary person would do in 2021 USA when some complete stranger walks into their shop unannounced like a 1940s gangster and starts making threats against them? In other words, so many people would become indignant at the leech who'd threatened their lives and their business and they'd just call the police to have the leech burned off.

 

The problem I have with your guide is that it seems that there really is no way at all that the legal character can avoid paying you or being killed. You say that they can get authorities on side by befriending them, offering discounts and all that, but then you also say that if the business owner involves the authorities to stop you, you should be able to burn their business down and ultimately seek a CK.

 

I have some questions here on this point - is the purpose of befriending the police so that business owner's police friends can make an informal visit to the extorter to intimidate them? Or is it so that the police will be more inclined to pick up the case and investigate it?

 

If it's the first one, then how can I control what the police actually do? If I suggest that they go and rough you up, then I might be facing charges for even suggesting that to a public official.

 

But if the reason for befriending the police is so they'll be more inclined to investigate my complaint, what's the point of me even bothering if you won't RP fear of the police and then back off and leave my business alone? Why shouldn't I instead do what people seem to be doing, and which you extortion supporters seem to hate so much, and simply get a gun and shoot you when you come back?

 

After all, if the police won't intervene in any of this stuff on the server, then short of enagaging in the patently ludicrous and extremely unrealistic exercise of figuring out who your criminal rivals are, enagaging them, and creating the peril of them also getting it in their heads to extort me, isn't this the only truly viable defensive mechanism available?

 

For me that's unrealistic, so I wouldn't do it, but aren't you also being unrealistic by continuing your scheme and ratcheting the violence and intimidation up a few notches even after you now would have to assume the police likely know who you are?

 

Ooooh, but snitches get stitches? How many citizens in modern America, aside from those who live in communities where the phrase has meaning - usually ethnic, and usually where the majority of the legal and illegal population distrusts police - really think twice about calling the police because of this phrase?

 

What you're actually trying to do is to expand a specific and contextually dependent code of silence to everyone - regardless of their background, and regardless of their geographic location. You're trying to do it because it provides a (flimsy) cover for you to justify terrorizing a business owner who would simply be doing what any of the vast majority of business owners would do in a modern first world country in calling the police.

 

This is the sad thing too, because legal characters would be happy to RP extortion with someone who is intelligent about it. @Ink provided an excellent set of circumstances under which sooooo many of us would be happy to RP with you. And the reason we'd be happy is because we'd still feel as though we have some agency as players; we could stop short at doing things that make our character really uncomfortable, but also build up a commitment to you over time so that those comfort zones are expanded. 

 

Instead, you walk into a shop and start making threats without any background at all, we get annoyed and automatically assume you're just there for an easy cash grab off the back of the many hours of work we've put in settting that business up. Sadly, from what I've read in this and the other thread, it looks like a few of you are.

 

I'm prepared to RP with illegal characters, my character even has a relationship with one who she never suspected was a criminal until she was emotionally committed to him and he revealed it. But I absolutely loathe being forced to be a part of another person's power fantasy where that other person is too lazy to put in the diligence and intelligence to make it a viable and believable RP experience. Most of the extortion RP I'm reading about is nothing more than an extended robbery attempt by a stranger who has little more justification for it than "I'm a big tough gangster, bow down to me."

 

[.George]

Credits to @Rumbunctiousfor this GTA:W evergreen. Extortion 101.

[AngelThreeTails]

2 hours ago, DjoleK said:

Credits to @Rumbunctiousfor this GTA:W evergreen. Extortion 101.

Hold the fuck up they just.. What? >Lower control arms removing the bolts and springs. What the fuck did I just watch. My brother being a mechanic to do that that's minimum a 2 hour job to even get to something that'd even affect the stability of a car like that.. I mean yeah i get the principle of it but.. What? That roleplay was straight up stupid. Okay yeah takes 10 seconds maybe to write a /me that an admin would say "Yeah no thats not happening, too vauge." But i've seen people get away with more. So fuck if I know dude.

Regardless yeah I get the principle of it, a bit heavy handed a show of force if you will is ideal.. Especially when extorting. But that could've been done so much better. The fact they just roll up armed to the teeth and do a quick /me before leaving. Thats not fair for anyone involved. Nobody got rp out of that and people can just say it didn't happen fuck off. Cause of how undetailed it was and how piss poor the roleplay involved was.

Edited January 12, 2021 by AngelThreeTails