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Why your character shouldn't have a gun


Fusco

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I think your latter point hits close to the mark.

It is the baiting RP, or players going out looking for a poor excuse to get themselves in a fight that is the issue, typically using disposable characters in the process.

 

This really isn't a legal vs illegal issue but an issue of poor character portrayal and over all poor RP quality.

 

I've seen the same thing happen on both sides. Bored legal players going into gangland and bored illegals going way outside their turf looking for trouble - the cause is usually the same, poor player quality.

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Not to bash on anyone, but defusing a brawl at a club with a firearm is just plain stupid. If a security guard does that, the next thing he should do is to resign from his position and return his license back to the state. Cause that's what would happen irl. And civilians pulling guns to defuse brawls? That actually happens? You know once, you pull your gun it's one of these two situations that could happen. 1. further escalation aka someone ends up dead 100% 2. You may manage to defuse the situation. But overall if you are willing to gamble in such situation, that only shows you are the one who shouldn't be owning a gun.

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On 12/24/2020 at 4:31 AM, Fusco said:

Imagine a real weapon that fires metallic projectiles at the speed of /light/. 

Speed of LIGHT??

 

I’d rather be shot by a 9mm pistol than a whole ray gun, what country even has this technology? I’m sure NASA would love to invest in this.

 

 

+ every person has their own POV what they have to do in order to protect themselves and their loves ones. Some will go head on verbally, others utilize weapons, it depends per scenario, per individual(s) involved.

Some people I know carry CCW guns cause of prevention of being raped or robbed, other have it on them cause of former traumatic experiences to avoid it from ever happening again and to protect themselves. Whilst others would feel safe with a knife, pepperspray, or whatever, it depends on the person and the intention to carry or even wield the tool.

 

You’re creating a POV which we cannot relate to, as it’s a biased tale as to why one shouldn’t have a gun, rather than exploring facts or the like. 

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6 minutes ago, Engelbert said:

Not to bash on anyone, but defusing a brawl at a club with a firearm is just plain stupid. If a security guard does that, the next thing he should do is to resign from his position and return his license back to the state. Cause that's what would happen irl. And civilians pulling guns to defuse brawls? That actually happens? You know once, you pull your gun it's one of these two situations that could happen. 1. further escalation aka someone ends up dead 100% 2. You may manage to defuse the situation. But overall if you are willing to gamble in such situation, that only shows you are the one who shouldn't be owning a gun.

This.

 

I genuinely don’t have an issue with players being allowed to legally obtain firearms to keep in their car or household for property protection, but what I hold issue with is the CCW side of things and how it’s become incredibly abundant on the server.

 

The amount of times I’ve seen characters with expressive personalities become braindead John Wick’s the moment any fight within 2 miles of their vicinity occurs that doesn’t even involve a firearm can’t be counted on both hands. The argument that CCW holders are looking for fights is something I believe is invalid, but I feel instead that it’s a case of CCW holders wanting to play Judge Dredd whenever a situation gets heated in public.

 

It’d be like gunning people down in a gas store because they’re having a shouting argument over the last bottle of Sprite in the back.


Would you maybe call the cops? Yeah. Would you walk over and whip your gun out before telling them to stop shouting? Fuck no.
 

It’s almost like there’s this hidden mentality among legal gun owners who go “Well I bought a gun for self defence, why would I want to keep it at home where it’s not going to be used?” which just promotes the idea of using the gun in order to get what they feel is their ‘money’s worth’ out of it.

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On 12/23/2020 at 10:15 PM, Ink said:

I disagree with this guide. I enrolled into this server and had zero intention of ever having my character carry a gun, however as I continued roleplaying a law-abiding citizen in GTA:W's Los Santos, the harder it became to justify that my character would not legally carry a gun.

 

If this was real life Los Angeles, yes, it'd be really unrealistic for all civilians to be concealed carrying. Even if this was a city in Texas you wouldn't see as much carrying. But the problem is, Los Santos has a really unrealistic rate of crime and violence. Couple that with melee sync and that the meta in this game is just to aim a gun at someone and automatically "win" the RP, there's just too many reasons to carry a gun both IC and OOC.

 

I feel  a lot safer both as a player and as a character carrying a gun. I never need to use it, but knowing that I have the option is huge. Of course, on a heavy RP server, if someone walks up and does the meta of "/me aims gun, RP fear!" then a gun won't save me, but there have been two incidences where my character was able to save her life or someone else's with a gun in this last year of RP. One of those incidences was voided because the character who got shot had his buddy come over and start VDMing the police on scene. Either way, if my character was unarmed she would have had to stand by and watch her friend be choked to death by an angry guy who crashed into her with his shit non-RP driving, and in the other RP she would have had a guy smash her head in with a baseball bat because she caught him robbing her friend's unconscious body. 

 

It's an IC issue. Los Santos is a very dangerous city. You can make your character and RP pretending it's a regular American city for a month or two, but after a while your character is either blind or stupid if they ignore how dangerous the city actually is ICly. My character doesn't go a single day without hearing one of her friends got robbed or attacked. It's practically powergaming if your character doesn't decide to legally carry a gun to protect themselves.

Let me pull this up here for a moment.

 

For all of the people in this thread comparing carrying a gun in GTA:W's Los Santos to real life American gun carry practices are missing the point. The dangers our characters face every day in Los Santos are nothing even remotely comparable to the dangers people in Los Angeles, New York City, Dallas, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Baltimore, or any number of other US cities face. It makes no intellectual sense to compare the two in this circumstance any deeper than remarking "oh, there are differences between reality and fiction." Los Santos has an unrealistic, astronomically high percentage of career criminals in the population, and has a staggering rate of gun-related violence which there is no reason to ignore ICly.

 

Now, let's talk about an ideal GTA:W for a moment. In an ideal GTA:W, every third cute 20-year-old girl wouldn't be carrying around a Glock in her bra, I'm with you guys there. As someone who has lived in many major American cities, it's really immersion breaking to me when every character on the server has a gun on them. I also know most people (even myself sometimes but god do I try my best) are not taking in account the  weight and discomfort of carrying around a concealed firearm all the time. I bet you 99% of Davis RPers have never roleplayed their gun dropping out of their baggy trousers, or falling down inside their pants leg. I guarantee you all theses people jumping over fences aren't roleplaying this weapon digging into their skin or preventing their mobility. I'd be surprised if any single person has ever roleplayed an accidental discharge of a firearm happening due to inappropriate carry. Obviously you got all these females wearing these tight clothes, short-shorts, skirts, and somehow manage to pull out a Scorpion when things get fuzzy. 

 

This is something just about every person on this server is guilty of, and if you're one of the very, very few people who isn't? Good on ya. Great for you! This thread isn't about you, and your chosen path is not going to be the solution for everyone else.

 

But the problem is, at the end of the day, that with the state of how things are on GTA:W, if you elect not to have your character have a gun on them, you waive your right to safety entirely. You are both OOCly and ICly putting your fate in the hands of the city, and that is both an OOCly and ICly unrealistic decision to make in GTA:W's Los Santos. 

 

Look, if our server was full of realistic civilian roleplay, and criminal RP was more realistic and less confrontational and consistently violent? Sure, you could get by without a gun. But the problem is that this server has a an overwhelmingly huge criminal element, and almost every conflict on this server ends in violence. Now, you might argue "well if everyone wasn't armed maybe it wouldn't end in violence all the time!" and I kind of agree with that sentiment, though not fully. Personally I'm blessed to surround myself with some of the best roleplayers on this server on a daily basis, almost all of us roleplaying civilian/"legal" characters. I think if you took the 30 people I roleplay with most often--almost all of them carry a gun ICly--and added up all our body counts, we'd have probably only PKed a collective 3 people or so (all in self-defense). Compare that to your average criminal roleplay group where you can expect a MINIMUM of 3 PKs per person on average. I still think 3 gun kills among 30 people is a high number, but GTA:W's portraying a million+ population city with only a few thousand people,  and a majority of the population are violent felons so /shrug. 

 

Most of the time things devolve into gun violence on this server, it's because of bad roleplay, and I think that most of the people involved in this problem are not being critical enough of their own behavior, the standards of their own roleplay, and that of their friends. I look at the average character story thread on this server, and criminal characters usually have a PK or CK on every single page of their thread. Again, not all of them, I've seen some roleplayers really hold themselves to a standard and go 2, 3, 4 pages of their thread at a time without showing off more screenshots of their characters murdering someone--but that's the minority. 

 

I don't see civilians disarming as being the solution for this server to have better roleplay. I think civilians being armed to the teeth is a natural progression of both the OOC and IC situation on the server. All of it's fully IC--the gun laws are IC, the licensing process is IC, buying a gun is IC. Our characters all being terrified of this city and the amount of violent psychopaths in it is FULLY IC. The fact that there are masked-up dudes riding around on BF400s and stacking up 3-deep in cars rolling around attempting random gun-point robberies and kidnappings in every single neighborhood in the city both rich and poor  is something our characters know about IC. 

 

Realistically, if you lived in a shithole like Los Santos in real life, you'd probably be moving out if you realistically had care for your own life. There is virtually no reason to live in this city as we portray it, but because this server is a game and it's one of the only modern RP settings in an HD video game that we have in our OOC world, we kind of have to deal with it. Your only other option is to quit the server and not play. Our city makes no sense at all, and the fact that it's a dangerous and violent place where gunpoint robberies happen every fifteen minutes and shootings happen multiple times an hour and people are being murdered by guns numbering in the dozens per day. So the minimum way we can rationalize civilian people staying is that they're doing their best to keep their own lives protected by following the IC gun laws we have and ICly getting licenses to carry guns.

 

Now ask yourself this. We're on a fully IC server where everything that happens unless an admin voids it is IC. Those of you who believe all legal characters should just collectively drop all their guns into a pile and leave them behind (coincidentally most you roleplay career criminals who carry illegal firearms funny how that works right?), I want you to think for a moment about the roleplay of a civilian in this city who isn't carrying a gun. If some shit-tier Davis RPer roleplays running down the street at them with a baseball bat in the middle of their afternoon walk in downtown LS, what do you think will be going through that character's mind in those few moments before this man either bludgeons them to unconsciousness with a club or robs them on the sidewalk with the threat of it? Do you think that character might reasonably be thinking, in that moment, "god, I wish I just took everyone's advice and applied for a gun license right about now."

 

With the state of melee sync on this server and the amount of brain dead criminals whose only existence revolves around sticking people up, and criminal characters played by people who OOCly have a desperate desire for fulfilling power fantasies of violent control over strangers because of the lack of control in their own real bleak lives withering away behind a keyboard unloved by anyone in society, OOCly choosing to have your character go about this server without a gun is signing away all of your rights to any person who approaches your character with any sort of weaponry--which will be anyone else. And ICly, your character is a stubborn idiot with no regard for their own lives if they don't choose to carry in Los Santos. Facts.

 

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On 2/26/2021 at 10:13 AM, Ink said:

For all of the people in this thread comparing carrying a gun in GTA:W's Los Santos to real life American gun carry practices are missing the point. The dangers our characters face every day in Los Santos are nothing even remotely comparable to the dangers people in Los Angeles, New York City, Dallas, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Baltimore, or any number of other US cities face. It makes no intellectual sense to compare the two in this circumstance any deeper than remarking "oh, there are differences between reality and fiction." Los Santos has an unrealistic, astronomically high percentage of career criminals in the population, and has a staggering rate of gun-related violence which there is no reason to ignore ICly.

It's much worse than that - I did the math.

 

Let's assume for a moment that:

  • Only player murders count as murders. No NPC numbers.
  • Only CK's count as murders, and there is only one CK per day (low estimate for the sake of argument.)
  • The city has a player population of 100,000 (again, a high estimate for the sake of the argument.)

We end up with a murder rate of around 365, per 100,000 people, per year.

 

Los Santos has a hundred more murders per year than the five most violent nations in the world for which we have statistics - combined. If you tally the numbers using the actual statistics rather than the insanely generous estimates I provided for population and CK's, the number is likely fivefold higher or more.

 

"But it's the job of police to protect the citizenry." I don't have numbers regarding the clearance rates of murders by arrest in Los Santos, but you're delusional if you think it approaches the 61.4% it is in real life. There is simply inadequate scripting (forensic and otherwise) to facilitate a realistic representation of these sorts of things.

 

Or are we to ignore our lying eyes and pretend the server is anywhere near realistic?

 

From an IC perspective, I would contend that you're an absolute fool if you don't own a gun. From an OOC perspective, I see nothing indicating that things are about to get more realistic any time soon "if only we would simply discard the notion that violence statistics matter." That leaves players little choice regarding how they deal with continued victimization - unless they'd like their characters to become criminals themselves, of course.

 

And so eventually we'll have a server that contains nothing but cops and criminals.

Edited by Smilesville
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56 minutes ago, Edelweiss206 said:

I personally believe we should turn FD or whatever department runs most ambulance / EMT services into Trauma Team and just give every EMT an M4. 

 

There's probably the same level of crime in GTAW and the CP universes.

Also Trauma Team has military training, vests and armored vehicles.

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19 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

It's much worse than that - I did the math.

 

Let's assume for a moment that:

  • Only player murders count as murders. No NPC numbers.
  • Only CK's count as murders, and there is only one CK per day (low estimate for the sake of argument.)
  • The city has a player population of 100,000 (again, a high estimate for the sake of the argument.)

We end up with a murder rate of around 365, per 100,000 people, per year.

 

Los Santos has a hundred more murders per year than the five most violent nations in the world for which we have statistics - combined. If you tally the numbers using the actual statistics rather than the insanely generous estimates I provided for population and CK's, the number is likely fivefold higher or more.

 

"But it's the job of police to protect the citizenry." I don't have numbers regarding the clearance rates of murders by arrest in Los Santos, but you're delusional if you think it approaches the 61.4% it is in real life. There is simply inadequate scripting (forensic and otherwise) to facilitate a realistic representation of these sorts of things.

 

Or are we to ignore our lying eyes and pretend the server is anywhere near realistic?

 

From an IC perspective, I would contend that you're an absolute fool if you don't own a gun. From an OOC perspective, I see nothing indicating that things are about to get more realistic any time soon "if only we would simply discard the notion that violence statistics matter." That leaves players little choice regarding how they deal with continued victimization - unless they'd like their characters to become criminals themselves, of course.

 

And so eventually we'll have a server that contains nothing but cops and criminals.

This is honestly what I am trying to say everywhere I go. Numbers, numbers numbers. Comparing real city crime rates to our Los Santos, simply won't work with any scale. Cause most of arguments anywhere fail to mention this fact. The ratio between roleplayers and their career choices.

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