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Investigations


Jari13X

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Just now, Tseard said:

That's exactly how any kind of branch starts, including SABI. While I'm not entirely opposed to DA Investigator's, I do think that it would be better to first work on communication and co-operation between the existing factions before inserting another branch in. 

And what do you think, did I, as the most active ADA and member in JSA (in game, and probably even on forums), try that? 0 Cooperation from PD until the few nights ago (and it just started), and cooperation from SD, only by 2 people, Miranda and Sharpe. We are trying to communicate and cooperate, it's not like we never tried. SABI will never be a thing anymore, as far as I know, and I wouldn't like to have SABI either. New faction is not needed, just branch inside DA's Office. This is just my opinion, and even DA Investigators might never be implemented, I never presented the idea to anyone, nor do I know anyone from my faction presented the idea to LFM, I'm just raising my opinion, saying what would be better, a lot, for the community. (Just to clarify to all the people writing about it, me participating in this discussion is just raising my opinion, not presenting any ideas.)

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15 minutes ago, .Pluto. said:

At the end of the day, idea about DA Investigator is not up to us, the community, it's up to my faction leaders, and Legal Faction Management. I see what are you trying to say, but most of you are just afraid that someone will "take your job away". That's why people are against it, not because "it's hard to maintain an investigative body". The idea of having DA Investigators is that hey will, I repeat, ASSIST PD/SD IN INVESTIGATIONS, only in high profile cases, such as organized crime. But they will clearly be able to investigate corruption of, for example, let's say, SD, because we are all aware that bunch of SD members have corruption permissions which started being unbalanced.

Nobody is afraid of you taking our jobs away and it does come down to the logistics, maintenance, etc of large (~30 members and counting) investigative bodies like the LSSD’s Detective Bureau that result in minimal investigations currently seeing public view. I just ask that those suggesting another investigative body be made understand what goes into the operations of one. If people want to assist in investigations, they should look at joining either the LSSD or LSPD in doing so. Build upon what’s already there instead of creating something new. 
 

The mention of an imbalance with corruption permissions in the LSSD is also baseless and irrelevant to the discussion. I don’t believe you know the facts pertaining to that situation. 

Edited by Timid
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1 minute ago, .Pluto. said:

  

And what do you think, did I, as the most active ADA and member in JSA (in game, and probably even on forums), try that? 0 Cooperation from PD until the few nights ago (and it just started), and cooperation from SD, only by 2 people, Miranda and Sharpe. We are trying to communicate and cooperate, it's not like we never tried. SABI will never be a thing anymore, as far as I know, and I wouldn't like to have SABI either. New faction is not needed, just branch inside DA's Office. This is just my opinion, and even DA Investigators might never be implemented, I never presented the idea to anyone, nor do I know anyone from my faction presented the idea to LFM, I'm just raising my opinion, saying what would be better, a lot, for the community. (Just to clarify to all the people writing about it, me participating in this discussion is just raising my opinion, not presenting any ideas.)

I'm not blaming you. I can only applaud your willingness and effort. I'm merely stating that the lines of communication and cooperation needs to be better before another branch is made that is supposed to co-operate. I have personally involved the DA's office in numerous of incidents with our Internal Affairs Bureau. We involve the DA as much as we can whenever it is needed and have done so in the past. We have even called down the DA's Office in-game when there was a situation unfolding.

 

Other than IAB, the Detective Bureau would probably be the only other entity that would co-operate a lot with the DA's and I am more than sure that they are willing to co-operate with the DA's Office on future cases. Matter of fact, I'll even bring this up for discussion with the bureau and check where improvements can be made.

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33 minutes ago, Timid said:

The people who make these suggestions have no idea what goes into building and maintaining an investigative body as well as building a successful investigation in the long-term. There’s no need for another investigative body. I can only speak from my position in the LSSD’s Detective Bureau, but we’ve grown tenfold over the course of recent months. We are still developing and laying the foundation for long-term success. This is a process that takes months and starting another investigative body would not help more investigations occur. I understand the frustration from an outsider perspective re the perceived lack of investigations, but try to think of it from a logistical standpoint too. Progress will come with time, at least with the LSSD’s Detective Bureau. 

If you read my suggestion you would see that I said that if PD/SD is dedicated to it, that this is also a viable option, we have people complaining about extortion and asking to set ooc limitations to it when it's something that could be easily investigated, along with government corruption and so on.

 

Saying that a faction or even a DA branch will take away from your roleplay is a double standard as there are certain investigations that you're not expected to do, at this point it just looks like you're trying to keep all your apples in one basket for no real reason.

Edited by Certified Lover Boy Jola
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1 minute ago, Tseard said:

I'm not blaming you. I can only applaud your willingness and effort. I'm merely stating that the lines of communication and cooperation needs to be better before another branch is made that is supposed to co-operate. I have personally involved the DA's office in numerous of incidents with our Internal Affairs Bureau. We involve the DA as much as we can whenever it is needed and have done so in the past. We have even called down the DA's Office in-game when there was a situation unfolding.

 

Other than IAB, the Detective Bureau would probably be the only other entity that would co-operate a lot with the DA's and I am more than sure that they are willing to co-operate with the DA's Office on future cases. Matter of fact, I'll even bring this up for discussion with the bureau and check where improvements can be made.

I am happy that we came to an agreement. As I said, DA Investigators maybe never will be suggested to LFM, maybe they'll never be implemented. And even if they don't get suggested or maybe implemented, I'll continue doing my thing. If the communication starts being better, cooperation between the Detective Bureaus and DA's Office, then we're all good.

 

2 minutes ago, Certified Lover Boy Jola said:

If you read my suggestion you would see that I said that if PD/SD is dedicated to it, that this is also a viable option, we have people complaining about extortion and asking to set ooc limitations to it when it's something that could be easily investigated, along with government corruption and so on.

 

Saying that a faction or even a DA branch will take away from your roleplay is a double standard as there are certain investigations that you're not expected to do, at this point it just looks like you're trying to keep all your apples in one basket for no real reason.

Thank you, that's a really good and valid point I couldn't make. That never came up to my mind.

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9 minutes ago, Certified Lover Boy Jola said:

If you read my suggestion you would see that I said that if PD/SD is dedicated to it, that this is also a viable option, we have people complaining about extortion and asking to set ooc limitations to it when it's something that could be easily investigated, along with government corruption and so on.

 

Saying that a faction or even a DA branch will take away from your roleplay is a double standard as there are certain investigations that you're not expected to do, at this point it just looks like you're trying to keep all your apples in one basket.

I definitely don’t recall saying an entirely new faction or DAI would take away from my roleplay nor am I trying to keep my apples in one basket. You’re putting words in my mouth. May I ask if you’ve had any experience doing investigative roleplay to say these investigations are easy? 
 

All I’m saying here is that I don’t believe another investigative body is viable, incl. DAI. There is room to build atop what’s already constructed before considering such an idea. I understand your viewpoint that there should be more investigation across the server, however  I ask you understand mine and realize it will come with time.

Edited by Timid
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8 minutes ago, Timid said:

I definitely don’t recall saying an entirely new faction or DIA would take away from my roleplay nor am I trying to keep my apples in one basket. You’re putting words in my mouth. May I ask if you’ve had any experience doing investigative roleplay to say these investigations are easy? 
 

All I’m saying here is that I don’t believe another investigative body is viable, incl. DAI. There is room to build atop what’s already constructed before considering such an idea. I understand your viewpoint that there should be more investigation across the server, however  I ask you understand mine and realize it will come with time.

Not going to go into my huge catalog of glorious investigative rp (/sarcasm) but I have real life examples which you also use unless you're employed by the LASD in real life along with how poorly extortion is done on the server. It's okay to say that yes, we've been slacking and we're working on making it better, I guess it'll come with time is a more PR way to say that, anyway not going to turn this is into another response saga/who can say the right thing, I think both of our points were already highlighted. 

Edited by Certified Lover Boy Jola
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1 hour ago, Tseard said:

 

That's exactly how any kind of branch starts, including SABI. While I'm not entirely opposed to DA Investigator's, I do think that it would be better to first work on communication and co-operation between the existing factions before inserting another branch in. 

 

The corruption isn't unbalanced at all, considering our faction count. It's just that it recently came more to light because of an event which caught a lot of people their attention. Rumours spread in a lot of Discords, most of them being false. We have an Internal Affairs Bureau that can easily handle it as has been done previously. 

 

1 hour ago, mattmocz said:

As a former member of SABI, I can say a new investigative faction is definitely not needed. There were a lot of reasons for it’s downfall and it does not need to be repeated. I’d like to see more work done by our existing factions and more working together between PD, SD and JSA. I would not be opposed to DAI if it was done properly.



These two sum up my opinion on this matter.

Before ANYTHING is considered, the DA's office (And JSA as a whole), SD, PD, even gov and fire marshals (Basically every government faction) need to sit together and talk about it on a management level. Simply saying: "Hey guys, we now have DAI's/County Detectives/Special Agents/Field Agents/whatever kind of "Special Investigator" role you can dream up" and shoving that down the throat of PD, SD and the legal and illegal roleplay community as a whole will only lead to drama and the role shutting down a month later.

I am more than certain that JSA faction management and Eden (District Attorney) are capable of organizing something, writing up the proper paper-trail for this to be able to hold these investigators to the same if not higher standards that PD/SD detectives are held to in the current system. 

I am sure they can make rules that properly allow for people to join this position (Such as: Have to be a serving or former member of a GTAW police faction, and have had an active role in investigative divisions in your capacity as a law enforcement roleplayer for one.)

But in the end it's up to the government side of roleplay and the community as a whole to accept this new branch.

And if that doesn't happen, it'll be doomed to fail.

 

And remember, the purpose of /any/ law enforcement isn't to explicitly shut down illegal roleplay. It's to provide government, legal and illegal roleplay with quality roleplay and interactions. 

Same thing that if DAIs/whatever kind of investigator gets implemented, their purpose would /solely/ be the same, with a focus on providing the PD/SD/fire marshals quality roleplay, rather than trying to supersede them.

 

Edit:
Just to say that I, as a JSA member and a PD uniformed detective would very much be open to this. 

Edited by BjornV
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8 hours ago, Tseard said:

God forbid anything like SABI on this server again. It starts as cool and fresh but turns out to become a playground. Both law enforcement factions have a dedicate Detective Bureau with people running all kinds of cases and sections. Instead of creating another faction that's vague described, you can better create a task force between the two departments and work on cases that way. It's a much more interesting concept and does way less harm. 

If only PD and SD talked to each other and stopped being territorial about everything, maybe. But the simple answer is, PD and SD's DB's do not talk with each other, and would actively aim to be a territorial force for casefiles, then work together. Happened on LSRP. Happens here. idk what you're talking about at all that something else would bring harm, just saying. 

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1 minute ago, Brett said:

If only PD and SD talked to each other and stopped being territorial about everything, maybe. But the simple answer is, PD and SD's DB's do not talk with each other, and would actively aim to be a territorial force for casefiles, then work together. Happened on LSRP. Happens here. idk what you're talking about at all that something else would bring harm, just saying. 

 

Just to footstomp this. The people involved know this frustration. I've been watching for far too long as PD and SD stomp on each other's investigations.

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