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Spreading Awareness - Official Status


Sinatra

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16 minutes ago, Gore said:

I currently feel like there are way more opportunities for legal factions than illegal and it's beginning to stagnate. We have so many illegal factions that are just cut and copied of past or just them redoing LSRP factions. This might not be the answer, but it's an attempt at one, so I am for that.

This really just stems from the fact that Legal factions like PD have a few modders and developers in their ranks, due to the "free to develop what you want" nature of the development team this definitely leads to them getting more shit then us.

 

This is a "Solution" but it's a solution that presents too many possible issues for the supposed good it does and when these issues are called out the players for this idea clam up and do this:

 

14 minutes ago, Sinatra said:

This isn't LS-RP, don't be one of those people commenting acting like their fighting an LS-RP official status proposal because if that's your mindset, you're part of the problem. I'd love to further discuss the pros and cons to this proposal with the community and administration.

 

They repeatedly quote the part of the OP where they say "Not like LSRP" then provide 0 evidence or reason why or how it would be different.

Edited by Henning
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Just now, Henning said:

They repeatedly quote the part of the OP where they say "Not like LSRP" then provide 0 evidence or reason why or how it would be different.

Because it's simply not.

Not even 0.00001% different, it's a copy-paste of LSRP's faction system but that's not the deal. It's obvious that the whole subject is about having drugs and guns coming their way OOC'ly without having to work on that shit which kills roleplay.

I'm reading the thread and the dudes' replies, all I see is ten times perks being mentioned but quality for once maximum.

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4 minutes ago, Giibi_ said:

I don't believe I mentioned LSRP, maybe you need to just put on some glasses or something dude. I just said stop being hungry for the OOC perks and maybe work on getting your drugs/guns IC because you all sound like you're dying for the perks you're asking for, not even factions' quality.

Your comment has no meaning to it what so ever. Just random assumptions of players who have different ways of thinking than your own. Like I just said, incase you maybe skipped over it, I have had supplier so what would be benefiting me by being on board with an idea such as this? Your snarky accusation holds zero weight behind it.

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And as a note regarding legal factions - the « official » words means they belong to the server. We can change their leader, no one owns it, they’ll always be there. The official word you’re referring to for this thread is completely different, so don’t compare the two. 
 

As for a personal experience, the official status is a way to add even more drama on the evaluation process and anger from everyone. I see no benefits from it at all. Do we want to add a step for long standing factions whose quality has been approved ? Maybe with a sticky thread yes it could be something, but anything else is a no, and I doubt a sticky thread would help anyone as it’ll just bring more noobs around your faction.

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17 minutes ago, the_criserk said:

Every time I see official status floated around it's the same bullshit about bringing a great 'culture' and 'encouraging roleplay'. Nah. You can do that without pandering to certain members of the Illegal Faction Management like it ended up on LSRP. You can do that without something validating your OOC ego. And you can do that without getting some specific 'goodies' befitting an official faction. 

You seem quite against an idea that achieves the exact thing you swear it doesn't do. No one is trying to validate out of character ego. No one is doing this for "goodies". For example, any player could look at the factions sub-forum and create a sub-par faction. And any player could create an excellent, high-quality faction. My point? My point is there is no separation between the two at the moment.

 

17 minutes ago, the_criserk said:

No. Official status is an archaic concept that does nothing to improve the standard or the condition of illegal roleplay. It's merely an old ass term that people from the LSRP like to use as a dick measuring contest.

How is a new formed "Official Status" an archaic concept? Setting a higher standard should be encouraged if anything. Just because people want to implement a system doesn't mean it is for a "dick measuring contest". The reality of the situation is the people disagreeing lack exposure to this issue and aren't faction leaders or avid illegal role-players. LSRP is in the past, yourself and others use it as a scapegoat to a downfall of how illegal role-play was corrupt and ran into the gutter. So a system was to blame for how LSRP's factions ended up? Or was it the people who ran the show? 

 

19 minutes ago, Henning said:

The people against the idea of official status offered valid concerns and criticism about the idea and the people for it had absolutely no rebuttal except:

 

  • You must be a legal RPer so your opinion is invalid
  • You must hate Illegal RP that's why your against
  • Reread the thread (We did and it didn't address our concerns) 

What are the so called valid concerns? What the vast majority is trying to say is they want changes to the system that currently exists. Whether it is a complete over haul or tweaks. The system changed once before in this community's past and now that there are more players, features, factions, and higher standards, who's to say it can't again?

 

You're opinion isn't necessarily invalid due to being a legal role-player. It simply carries less weight due to the unexperienced nature of your mentality towards faction leadership and setting standards for a sub-section of an entire community.

 

I don't think anyone claims that you or anyone else hates illegal role-play. It's just baffling to not want to raise the standard and ask more of factions going forward. The current state begs for sub-par factions to be created, where as a system or tweaks to this system will raise the bar.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Henning said:

They repeatedly quote the part of the OP where they say "Not like LSRP" then provide 0 evidence or reason why or how it would be different.

That's the purpose of this thread. What no one seems to see is that we are trying to discuss ways to make it different, how to see it succeed, etc. But everyone derails the idea before take-off.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Nervous said:

And as a note regarding legal factions - the « official » words means they belong to the server. We can change their leader, no one owns it, they’ll always be there. The official word you’re referring to for this thread is completely different, so don’t compare the two. 
 

As for a personal experience, the official status is a way to add even more drama on the evaluation process and anger from everyone. I see no benefits from it at all. Do we want to add a step for long standing factions whose quality has been approved ? Maybe with a sticky thread yes it could be something, but anything else is a no, and I doubt a sticky thread would help anyone as it’ll just bring more noobs around your faction.

Honestly, I don’t want to call IFM or the admins “lazy” because it’s a tough and thankless position. But I firmly believe their standards for faction and player approval need to be much more stringent. I’ll die on that hill

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49 minutes ago, Nervous said:

"The vast majority of illegal RPers have agreed that some type of official implementation is needed in order to improve quality and legacy to the illegal scene in the server" : This is extremely false, and it was removed upon request of illegal roleplayers to be replaced with a more fair system.


"No standards exist in any avenue of illegal RP, a gang or mob can be created with no notoriety and be instantly paralleled with another faction that've been grinding to set a standard for months.  We're doing ourselves an injustice here at GTAworld by disregarding this huge problem." : This is also completely false. Many long standing factions have built a huge notoriety, and you don't need a script to OOCly "protect" you. If you can't roleplay a faction standing / notoriety yourself, that's another problem. As IFM, we also take the faction IC power and age to determine CK requests / agreements. If a new faction attacks an old one for almost no reason and without properly roleplaying the power of said old faction, we send CK agreements on all their members to the old faction if they are attacked. It already happened many times.

 

I am personally in favor of an official status and have always been, but the way you write it make it sounds like you just want OOC benefits out of it and completely disregards the realism expected on the server.

I think we can both agree this server has made far strides since that initial decision was made. Continuing to operate off an outdated decision is committing an injustice to the amount of progress that was made here on this server. I'm not asking for a replica of LS-RP which I'm thinking the majority of people are believing. I'm asking for discussion, to create a new system that commends quality roleplay and promotes people to join long lasting factions instead of creating their own because at the current state, there is NO incentive to do so. This is a reason we have 3 pages of factions currently. People have so much hate against this idea because they can't comprehend what it represents. My overall point is this, offering official is displaying that the administration and the server endorse high quality roleplay. What official entails? That's for IFM to decide, I'm simply proposing for the general idea to be brought to the table because last time it didn't. At this point, a pinned faction at the top would suffice because I disagree that previous factions left any trademark on the server. 

 

I appreciate your response. 

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4 minutes ago, Nervous said:

And as a note regarding legal factions - the « official » words means they belong to the server. We can change their leader, no one owns it, they’ll always be there. The official word you’re referring to for this thread is completely different, so don’t compare the two. 
 

As for a personal experience, the official status is a way to add even more drama on the evaluation process and anger from everyone. I see no benefits from it at all. Do we want to add a step for long standing factions whose quality has been approved ? Maybe with a sticky thread yes it could be something, but anything else is a no, and I doubt a sticky thread would help anyone as it’ll just bring more noobs around your faction.

If this is the system we are going to go with where anyone can make a carbon copy faction without bringing experience to the table then it will fail. Anyone can go and make a new gang, mafia, or whatever faction they want the second the going gets tough trying to join a faction. This decreases realism and any sense of quality that experienced illegal faction leaders and role-players bring to this community.

 

As an example, if I wanted to role-play a Police Captain on a new character, why can't I just make a new character and do so? I'll make my name Thomas Smith and now I'm a Police Captain, Lieutenant, or even Chief for that matter. But I can't because it's unrealistic, drops standards, and allows experienced legal role-players to do their job. This is what we're comparing it to in the illegal sector.

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Just now, Dano said:

You seem quite against an idea that achieves the exact thing you swear it doesn't do. No one is trying to validate out of character ego. No one is doing this for "goodies". For example, any player could look at the factions sub-forum and create a sub-par faction. And any player could create an excellent, high-quality faction. My point? My point is there is no separation between the two at the moment.

 

How is a new formed "Official Status" an archaic concept? Setting a higher standard should be encouraged if anything. Just because people want to implement a system doesn't mean it is for a "dick measuring contest". The reality of the situation is the people disagreeing lack exposure to this issue and aren't faction leaders or avid illegal role-players. LSRP is in the past, yourself and others use it as a scapegoat to a downfall of how illegal role-play was corrupt and ran into the gutter. So a system was to blame for how LSRP's factions ended up? Or was it the people who ran the show? 

 

What are the so called valid concerns? What the vast majority is trying to say is they want changes to the system that currently exists. Whether it is a complete over haul or tweaks. The system changed once before in this community's past and now that there are more players, features, factions, and higher standards, who's to say it can't again?

 

You're opinion isn't necessarily invalid due to being a legal role-player. It simply carries less weight due to the unexperienced nature of your mentality towards faction leadership and setting standards for a sub-section of an entire community.

 

I don't think anyone claims that you or anyone else hates illegal role-play. It's just baffling to not want to raise the standard and ask more of factions going forward. The current state begs for sub-par factions to be created, where as a system or tweaks to this system will raise the bar.

 

 

Oh please spare me. It's not the administration that made the members of the factions and their leaders behave differently. Spare the whole 'but you're not an avid illegal roleplayer'. I have been one. I am an illegal roleplayer. Just because I dislike this concept doesn't mean I do less of this roleplay than you do.

 

Once a faction becomes official it becomes swamped with all sorts of players, for that reason only. It became official. It becomes targeted by other factions, who seek to involve themselves with it for the sole reason it is official and it might bring them some advantages, such as supplies. It also results in an influx of members that are not always of good quality, and then the faction becomes heavily washed down.

 

Another reality of the situation is that, while this is not LSRP, a very good chunk of the population that played on LSRP, also plays here. Especially illegal roleplayers. So are you going to tell me they won't behave the same way here? I'd argue that they already do in some cases.

 

What is the issue with creating new factions? Factions come and go. And that's good, because it is a way that allows the whole system to regulate itself. Factions that are of questionable quality do not survive long. Factions that are trigger happy and attempt to take out larger factions are beaten into submission. In a sense, the system, by design, recycles different factions. And that's good. Why should there be a few official factions that receive more attention? To allow a long-standing, long-living faction? If it cannot survive that long on it's own, then it's not worth keeping alive artificially.

 

There is no good way about going about OFFICIAL factions. At most, perhaps a featuring with a sticky topic, something to get them some exposure. But giving them in-game benefits, because they were arbitrarily chosen by a group of select admins within the Faction Management team? How is that going to be any different from the previous Official Faction system we've seen on LSRP? Because while we can sit around and say, 'yeah but it was their FM that was at fault', there is nothing saying that this server's FM can't do the same. So, while I'd agree with maybe a bit more exposure, I cannot agree with giving benefits to an 'official faction'. It doesn't work long term, it causes toxicity, and it's nothing more than an OOC dick measuring contest. 

 

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