How does someone get out of extortion?

[Koko]

34 minutes ago, DoomedAmerica said:

hehe Demond Brown?

it me

[Trupiano]

2 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

Now that we understand each other, we can begin discussing how best to approach an issue that is becoming more severe every day - extortion (and to some degree, criminal) roleplay needs to be fixed, as the current approach is negatively impacting the roleplay community as a whole.

1. Give criminals more to actually do and make money. Right now, unless your a supplier drugs don't make enough money. At the end of the day, gangs and mobs are a business and their goal is to make money. Sure it makes a little or you might break even however the Risk Vs. Reward is way off. Stealing cars is the same situation, sure you can make a little money but there's nothing really to build on. Extortion is the only form of Illegal RP where you can bring in a consistent and realistic amount of money weekly. Hence why we see extortion and 3rd world style robberies in the middle of Vinewood so frequently, there just isn't that much more to do.
2. Either a third LEO faction needs to be added or the DA's office needs additional legislation passed so they have some actual teeth. I was told by Ex-SABI members that they made significant progress against organized crime on the server however their hands were tied in the end by the lack of RICO style laws.  At the end of the day they were only able to bring down one crew of a much larger organization.
   1. Convictions of this style should be long term, If you can be tied back to an actual criminal organization, your sentence should automatically be IRL weeks not hours. People can complain about the lack of activity in jail all they want but there is plenty to be found if you actually pay attention to when things are happening.
3. People need to start actually calling the police and calling their city councilmen. Nothing is going to change IC if no one addresses it IC and yes, the first few people who do this will likely be killed. But the more noise you make about this IC, the harder it is for criminals to actually extort a business.

 

Now what I don't think will fix this issue:

 

1. Make extortionists CKable: The exact same people arguing for this are the same people in other threads complaining about the amount of murder on the server. Making extortionists CKable is only going to make both issues worse. It also makes no sense IC and seems to be an OOC mindset for an IC issue. People know that the extortionists will come back OOCly and so they think OOCly for a solution. Ask yourself, is your perfectly legal character capable of murder? If they are, is that really the solution they would come up with IC?
2. Put extortion behind a application like supplier: As I pointed out previously, extortion is only as bad as it is based on what features we currently have at our finger tips. People really have no other choice if they are an OC faction, especially if they don't have supplier. Doing this might cut down on the amount of extortion happening but it will also kill illegal RP for a majority of the minor factions on the server. But it seems that some of you have more of a desire to see illegal RP removed entirely then you want actual solutions.
3. Extortionists need to show more fear: I agree with this statement but I'm not quite sure I agree with the people saying it. There have been a few examples given on this thread that are obviously an example of poor escalations which do need to be addressed however, what exactly am I supposed to be fearing? If I try to extort someone and don't specifically make any threats, have I committed a crime? If a cop comes to me and asks if I extorted a business, well it's all he said she said. This is why normally how extortion is handled is by planting an undercover inside the a businesses that is being extorted and to get the extortionists to try to extort said undercover. Additionally, there is the IC factor. PD and SD does nothing to address major crime or at least this is the impression they give IC. If I see cops ignoring shit time after time, eventually my character is going to get the impression that he can get away with shit like violent extortion. A better example might be even speeding. IRL, if I see a speed trap letting people pass him going 10 over? I'm going to get the impression that I can get away with speeding in that area. Likewise, if I enter an area where I know cops are assholes about speeding. I'm sure as hell going to be traveling at the speed limit, regardless of if I see a cop or not.

[DasFroggy]

34 minutes ago, Henning said:

Give criminals more to actually do and make money.

If money is an issue, I would be more than happy to help directly. Begin hunting down poor roleplayers in your ranks and make very visible and violent examples of them, create a distinct and high standard for those in your organization that plan to engage in robbery/extortion situations, and I can guarantee I will notice and reward the difference. If a mugger, gang, or mafia creates fun and interesting roleplay, I will literally pay to see more of it. 

 

The problem is, nobody is promoting a higher standard. Instead there is this strange push to reduce civilian roleplayers into little more than walking asset dispensers.

 

34 minutes ago, Henning said:

Make extortionists CKable

Only so long as it is universally mutual. I am willing to forego requesting that extortionists and criminals in general be at risk of a CK, if the same applies for their victims. If the victims must endure the risk, so should the perpetrators.

Edited December 24, 2020 by DasFroggy

[Trupiano]

43 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

If money is an issue, I would be more than happy to help directly. Begin hunting down poor roleplayers in your ranks and make very visible and violent examples of them, create a distinct and high standard for those in your organization that plan to engage in robbery/extortion situations, and I can guarantee I will notice and reward the difference. If a mugger, gang, or mafia creates fun and interesting roleplay, I will literally pay to see more of it. 

The issue with this is, if you want to be an earner? You got to have a racket and there aren't that many rackets to go around, especially profitable ones. Obviously, if I'm the mob boss and somebody isn't earning? Damn right they are getting the boot. But I also understand OOCly that it's pretty hard to make money as a criminal, I know a lot of people who RP 75% of their money coming from selling drugs but in reality they are actually losing money on drugs and supplementing that lose with money from a legal business. I also know players who's extortion RP is trash but they'll show you the best meth cooking RP of your life. So you end up with players who should be able to provide high quality drug RP being forced to do extortion, something they aren't particularly good at simply because they need to earn. 

 

I've gone on and on about drugs but chopping cars is even more of an issue. Ideally you could have ten criminals working for you making a decent amount of money under the table if you ran a crooked autoshop. You've got guys stealing the cars, you've got the guys chopping them and of course the characters running the show. However, on GTAW you'd have to run your garage as a 24/7 chop shop to get anywhere near the same profits you would IRL and even if you did? Your lease will get pulled almost instantly by PD and Property Management and frankly it seems like they do this based on looking at what garages are being used on faction threads instead of doing actual police work. So like a lot of people, I just straight up tell individuals not to get into the car chopping business because not only will you not get much money out of it, you won't get much RP either.

 

43 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

Only so long as it is universally mutual. I am willing to forego requesting that extortionists and criminals in general be at risk of a CK, if the same applies for their victims. If the victim's must endure the risk, so should the perpetrators.

Maybe I'm just confused but I don't understand how this could possibly play out mutually. In theory, sure criminals would go into businesses understanding they could get CKed but I don't see it playing out as an actual fix. Instead you'll end up with criminals showing up twice as deep and twice as aggressive. Additionally, the way people have brought up this suggestion worries me because it seems way, way to easily abused by the legal RPer just looking to kill criminals. If I try to extort Jane Doe she can just cap me in the back of the head as I'm leaving? I mean at least for criminals we have to make a application with evidence and solid reasoning. I can't just apply and say Jane Doe refused to pay my tax, give me CK perms. I have to actually show the build up and explain why killing Jane is the best option for my character. 

 

Now obviously, there are certain things that I believe would warrant a legal character CKing their extortionist. For example if a criminal walked in and said "Hey Jane Doe, if you don't pay X amount this week I'm going to murder you and everyone you love" It's understandable that Jane would feel she had no choice but to commit a murder and should be able to make a CK application on said extortionist. However, simply automatically granting CK right I feel would lead to more unrealistic behavior from legal characters instead of addressing the unrealistic behavior by illegal characters. If anything it will make it worse because every criminal will go into business expecting a fight.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Henning

[DasFroggy]

24 minutes ago, Henning said:

it's pretty hard to make money as a criminal,

As I have stated, in no exaggerated terms - I will LITERALLY PAY for improved roleplay quality. We can thus, with confidence, take the concern of poor earnings off the table. It is at this point a simple question - is roleplay quality so much an obstacle for your organization? One hundred thousand dollars could be the next gain for one of your mafia members if they make a criminal interaction fun and above the current trash level I wade through every time I log in (which is becoming glaringly less frequent because I do not enjoy being a financial pez dispenser for the folks that lie and say I will be banned for not /showinv'ing on demand.)

 

Do you need help finding these people in your organization? I'm here, I'm willing to help. Let's get over these trivial excuses and start fixing the real problem. I very much prefer to do that as opposed to this, but it needs to actually happen, or else we'll be right back here discussing low-qualily extortions/muggings/crimes again.

 

So which is it? Are you going to accept my help with weeding out and correcting/removing problematic persons from your organization, or are we going to resume the discussion of rules to do what you won't?

 

((As a special note, this offer is completely genuine. I am one hundred percent willing to walk away from discussing additional crime roleplay restrictions and pay out more generous sums, if organization leaders are willing to work and demonstrate an active pursuit and punishment of anyone that engages in subpar criminal roleplay.))

Edited December 24, 2020 by DasFroggy

[Trupiano]

3 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

So which is it? Are you going to accept my help with weeding out and correcting/removing problematic persons from your organization, or are we going to resume the discussion of rules to do what you won't?

Your missed the main point of my reply.

 

The issue isn't quality across the board. The issue is the lack of viable options for Illegal RPers. I personally excel at extortion RP but personally am  not great at drug RP. So I choose to do extortion instead and things work out great for all involved parties. But what about the guy who excels at drug RP? He could run the most realistic and best RPed DTO this server has ever seen but that isn't going to change the fact that drugs aren't profitable nor is there enough activity surrounding it to make it your main focus. You could make the argument that you can build yourself up IC but even then, there's not enough of a market to have multiple people seeing returns.

 

This is the issue with these threads, people make claim about what the issue is and what needs to be done to fix it. Yet when people who actually play as criminals 24/7 try to productively take part in the discussion and offer up what issues they are actually facing we get accused of just being unwilling to fix the issues.

 

You seem hung up on the idea that for RP to be high quality, you have to enjoy it. Sorry, if that what you think the issue is then you'll never enjoy this server because 9/10 nobody is going to enjoy kicking up a portion of their profits to thugs. Not in real life, nor on the server. I don't want an extra 100k because I I sacrificed my own realism so that store owners can derive more enjoyment from my RP. Are there people who go about extorting people with trash RP and escalation? Yes and I've admitted this and I've admitted that these players need to get punished. But the vast majority of issues are IC and caused by the Law enforcements IC reaction. People have constantly eluded to the Conti Crime Family's extortion tactics on this thread and I'm well aware that the number of businesses they were extorting had gotten pretty out of control over the summer. But did anyone try to do anything about it IC? Why should they be forced to RP fear of prosecution when LEO's show time after time that they don't want to tackle the issue of extortion? This same "Well they'll just CK me and burn down my business" mentality is the same reason organized crime was so powerful during the 19th and 20th century. Just like it's made organized crime so powerful on this server.

 

 

[UTOPIA]

14 minutes ago, Henning said:

People have constantly eluded to the Conti Crime Family's extortion tactics on this thread and I'm well aware that the number of businesses they were extorting had gotten pretty out of control over the summer. But did anyone try to do anything about it IC? Why should they be forced to RP fear of prosecution when LEO's show time after time that they don't want to tackle the issue of extortion?

To touch upon this, it's true; when the hammer finally did fall upon us (Conti Crime Family) for all of the extortion, we felt heat like we had never felt before. It felt like we were being watched around the clock, we were more paranoid than ever, and as a result of this we put an end to the extortion scheme for good. One of the people who were being extorted by us actually came forward and warned us about law enforcement taking an interest in what we were doing, the guy was actually rewarded with cash for telling us about it and he 'got out of' extortion as a result of what he did.

 

After having experienced the LEO side of things over these past few months, I'll say as much as it is time consuming and difficult to levy an investigation, especially when there are tons of other, instant action things you can be doing. It takes a lot of focus, drive and dedication to successfully pursue cases like these. It's pretty easy to catch someone who's trying to extort you, toss up some security cameras, ask for names, numbers, enough relevant information that would be able to aid a detective/deputy/officer in their investigation, go along with it; once the person has been indicted you can probably even sue in civil court for your money back if you can prove that the extortionist has taken an exact amount of money from you.

 

In roleplay there is never just one solution to any problem, as every problem is unique, be creative, go with the flow and understand that what may be a threat or inconvenience at first glance may create an opportunity for you down the line. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by UTOPIA

[DasFroggy]

1 hour ago, Henning said:

you'll never enjoy this server

If this is the stance you feel is acceptable, the real issue is abundantly clear. The justification that a few people may be unhappy does not give the carte blanche to assume everyone deserves to be unhappy so long as you alone are not. Roleplay, serious, heavy roleplay, is understanding that you play a role, even if it is not always that of the protagonist. I willingly and occasionally enthusiastically play supporting characters that never touch guns and lose quite often because it helps make the experience enjoyable for others, and that experience is enjoyable for me too when people recognize the script that they can totally play fast and loose with. At no point do I assume that my enjoyment should be the absolute priority even at the cost of others, and honestly? ...that attitude would end many of these problems if most people adopted it. 

 

Which brings us back to you. You can have that attitude too. It is entirely within your ability to organize an enjoyable roleplay scene, which in turn will give you reputation, money, influence, and power. These are things people will voluntarily give you if you are fun to be around.

 

But this attitude of deliberately and immediately discounting that other participants in your scheme can be allowed to have fun, is not at all cohesive or pragmatic in a roleplay environment.

 

1 hour ago, Henning said:

I don't want an extra 100k because I I sacrificed my own realism 

You are going to find that the staff are not prepared to agree with your stance of realism taking priority over community health. Realism to some is murdering their mugging victims to avoid witnesses because "psychopathic murderers are a real thing" (example). Realism to some is being fast at the draw and killing a random, unaffiliated civilian because it is indeed very realistic for innocent bystanders to be mixed up in a conflict they know nothing about (example). Realism for some is a fifteen year old performing a 160,000$ firearms scam, because apparently the kids are sent to do the dangerous stuff (example).

 

These situations are distinctly disallowed, as evidenced in the report section, not because they are too outside of real situations, but because it is not a practical attitude in a heavy roleplay community. We make reasonable sacrifices of realism for the health of the community.

 

This is a roleplay server. Play a role but do not do so in such a way that it is detrimental to others. I am willing to do just that much for you, the least you can do is the same for me.

 

1 hour ago, Henning said:

But did anyone try to do anything about it IC?

Good question - did you?

 

You can be part of the solution. If a particular family is causing problems, do not sit on it. Be active in investigating and making examples of problem players.  It is always in the interests of every criminal organization to ensure every participant in the area is not enjoying an excess that routinely brings unwanted attention from law enforcement, or worse, angry mobs.

Edited December 24, 2020 by DasFroggy

[Trupiano]

34 minutes ago, UTOPIA said:

After having experienced the LEO side of things over these past few months, I'll say as much as it is time consuming and difficult to levy an investigation, especially when there are tons of other, instant action things you can be doing. It takes a lot of focus, drive and dedication to successfully pursue cases like these. It's pretty easy to catch someone who's trying to extort you, toss up some security cameras, ask for names, numbers, enough relevant information that would be able to aid a detective/deputy/officer in their investigation, go along with it; once the person has been indicted you can probably even sue in civil court for your money back if you can prove that the extortionist has taken an exact amount of money from you.

Building on this, this is why I suggested pages ago that people should start complaining to their representative on city council. In private discussions with PD high command members about long form investigations, they expressed a concern about exactly what @UTOPIAis describing. They didn't want to force members of the faction into investigations that would be incredibly time consuming, frustrating at times but not always fruitful in the end. However, I feel with enough IC pressure from the top (Being city council) we can create an environment where investigations might not be fruitful in the way of arrests and big take downs but are fruitful for an officers career.

 

Now on to @DasFroggy's reply. Or attempting at least since your quoting half sentences out of a multi-paragraph response.

33 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

If this is the stance you feel is acceptable, the real issue is abundantly clear. The justification that a few people may be unhappy does not give the carte blanche to assume everyone deserves to be unhappy so long as you alone are not. Roleplay, serious, heavy roleplay, is understanding that you play a role, even if it is not always that of the protagonist. I willingly and occasionally enthusiastically play supporting characters that never touch guns and lose quite often because it helps make the experience enjoyable for others, and that experience is enjoyable for me too when people recognize the script that they can totally play fast and loose with. At no point do I assume that my enjoyment should be the absolute priority even at the cost of others, and honestly? ...that attitude would end many of these problems if most people adopted it. 

 

1 hour ago, Henning said:

You seem hung up on the idea that for RP to be high quality, you have to enjoy it. Sorry, if that what you think the issue is then you'll never enjoy this server because 9/10 nobody is going to enjoy kicking up a portion of their profits to thugs. Not in real life, nor on the server.

So that's the full context of what your responding to and what I meant by that is that extortion at it's most basic forms isn't going to be some ultra fun experience. Most of the time it's going to be a quick conversation and a money exchange on a weekly basis. Using your own expectation of "fun" as the bar to which extortion RP is good or bad doesn't translate to any useful solution. Personally, if I'm getting extorted I'd regard the interaction as "fun" as long as the person collecting isn't overly aggressive every time. That is fun to me because it's realistic. I never implied that everyone needs to be unhappy, but if your idea of fun is you having sixteen different problems you need the mobs help in solving every week then again I'll say that I'm not going to sacrifice my realism for your own enjoyment.

1 hour ago, Henning said:

I don't want an extra 100k because I I sacrificed my own realism so that store owners can derive more enjoyment from my RP.

 

1 hour ago, DasFroggy said:

You are going to find that the staff are not prepared to agree with your stance of realism taking priority over community health. Realism to some is murdering their mugging victims to avoid witnesses because "psychopathic murderers are a real thing". Realism to some is being fast at the draw and killing three people for initiating the inevitable need for self defense by attempting extortion. Realism for some is a fifteen year old performing a 160,000$ firearms scam, because apparently the kids are sent to do the dangerous stuff.

I never said anything about murdering witnesses or fifteen year old's performing scams. That statement was entirely in response to you literally saying: 

 

2 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

As I have stated, in no exaggerated terms - I will LITERALLY PAY for improved roleplay quality. We can thus, with confidence, take the concern of poor earnings off the table.

 

2 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

 

((As a special note, this offer is completely genuine. I am one hundred percent willing to walk away from discussing additional crime roleplay restrictions and pay out more generous sums, if organization leaders are willing to work and demonstrate an active pursuit and punishment of anyone that engages in subpar criminal roleplay.))

Again your obsessing over one little detail in a larger response. Criminal RPers aren't chasing IG money but money is the driving factor behind crime. People don't become drug dealers because it's a fun hobby, they do it for money. People don't extort businesses because of a power fantasy, they do it for money. "Making money" is the IC reason behind criminal RP but it's not the reason people play criminals. When your in an organization for example the Italian mob, your expected to kick up weekly earnings. The more you kick up, the more favor you win with your superiors and in turn your respect and status within the organization increases. 

 

Now in the real world, there are a million different ways to make money but obviously on the server we are limited by scripts limitations, population size, etc. So we only have a few avenues to work with on GTAW these mainly being:

 

• Sell Drugs
• Sell Guns
• Chop Cars
• Steal shit (Robberies, muggings, home invasions, etc)
• Illegal Gambling 
• Extort businesses
• Prostitution 

Drugs -  Drugs should be the most profitable and the majority of criminal activity on the server. It has now slowly started seeing some development script wise but basically drugs enter the server through a supplier, distributed to other large or medium sized organizations who then sell it to gangs. The biggest issue for drugs is there is no end user. No one buying the weed at the lowest level of the food chain. This leads the market to stagnate as packages get flipped back and forth between lower organizations before eventually getting all sold on the street. Because the market moves so slowly, like I stated in previous replies you can't really focus on it full time. IRL a popular plug might be getting hit up 10 times a day for small amounts of weed. On the server your lucky to see 10 customers a week.

 

Sell Guns - Unless your a supplier or connected to a supplier via paying tax, it can be hard to get enough guns to make a business out of it. You might sell a few guns here and there but like I stated in other replies, it's not enough to focus on. Unlike drugs, guns have an incredibly high demand on this server. Rarely factions have enough to sell and even then it's in your best interest to distribute them amongst your own guys.

 

Chop Cars -  Risk Vs. Reward, as I explained in previous replies the risk far out weighs the reward when it comes to chopping cars, regardless if your able to get it going you still wouldn't be able to get enough out of it to make it a full time gig. The system for using car parts is just... bad. You barely get any car parts back on each car (When you think of what you realistically would get) and it's basically junk until you craft it into knives... Really? IRL a good portion of car theft isn't even chopping cars, it's stealing them to be sold over seas or in another state/area. We can't do that on the server.

 

Illegal Gambling - There is really no point. Gambling is legal on the server and the demand for gambling is easily taken up by legal establishments. You can get a private game going once and awhile but nothing you could rely on. If gambling was illegal it could open a whole new range of opportunities for RP not only in running those operations but targeting them for robbery.

 

Prostitution - Maybe somebody from EOC wants to chime in on this one but basically it's a fucking horror show. You can do it, it's profitable but people on this server have some fucked up fetishes and they use this server to live them out. There are people who ERP on this server and then there are the people who actively seek out prostitutes. Sure, some people are perfectly fine and just doing it for their characters RP but many of them are seeking a different type of enjoyment then you and I when we play on the server.

 

So what does that leave us with? Extortion and Stealing shit.

 

Muggings - High risk, high reward. Vast majority of this server carries a CCW and almost everyone is carrying near the robbery limit. You can get a gun to sell, for your own use and you can make some cash.

 

Home Invasions - Hit or miss, it can take hours to get your /breakin answered and even if you do there's a good chance there's nothing of value inside. These two factors combined discourages people from doing this frequently. Also alarms are buggy as hell, you can't hear them inside so unless you have an admin who's nice there's a large chance of getting arrested.

 

Extortion - The most bang for your buck option. Not only do you get RP out of every encounter, it's also the only criminal activity in which the profits are somewhat realistic. You can expand the amount of businesses you extort, you can get more faction members involved in your RP and most importantly there's always more you can do.

 

Now, where you see an issue with quality. I see an issue with variety. For the most part, faction leaders do care about quality. But just because someone has high quality RP in say the way they deal drugs, that doesn't always mean they are going to excel when it comes to extortion. But when the drug trade moves so slowly they need to find other things to fill up their time. If your expected to kick up money each week but you only have drugs to sell during the first week of the month, you gotta find ways to expand your cash flow. This is why expanding these and adding more things for illegal RPers to do is so important. I know it's hard to see how it's all connected but the reason we have so much violent crime and extortion on this server is directly because of how lacking all the other illegal activities are.

2 hours ago, DasFroggy said:

Good question - did you?

 

You can be part of the solution. If a particular family is causing problems, do not sit on it. Be active in investigating and making examples of problem players. 

So again, lets go full context:

 

3 hours ago, Henning said:

People have constantly eluded to the Conti Crime Family's extortion tactics on this thread and I'm well aware that the number of businesses they were extorting had gotten pretty out of control over the summer. But did anyone try to do anything about it IC? Why should they be forced to RP fear of prosecution when LEO's show time after time that they don't want to tackle the issue of extortion? This same "Well they'll just CK me and burn down my business" mentality is the same reason organized crime was so powerful during the 19th and 20th century. Just like it's made organized crime so powerful on this server.

 

Firstly, I never say that I had issues with their extortion RP. I said people have constantly eluded to them. I did however admit that the reach of their extortion had gotten pretty out of control. But again as I stated before, there's not many avenues of illegal activity on this server and people are going to expand in one way or another. At it's peak I think they probably had at least 50 active members and they went uncheck by law enforcement for quite some time. However, as @UTOPIAdescribed the minute law enforcement cranked up the heat, they dropped the whole racket entirely: 

 

3 hours ago, UTOPIA said:

To touch upon this, it's true; when the hammer finally did fall upon us (Conti Crime Family) for all of the extortion, we felt heat like we had never felt before. It felt like we were being watched around the clock, we were more paranoid than ever, and as a result of this we put an end to the extortion scheme for good. One of the people who were being extorted by us actually came forward and warned us about law enforcement taking an interest in what we were doing, the guy was actually rewarded with cash for telling us about it and he 'got out of' extortion as a result of what he did.

Secondly, I actually interacted with Conti Crime Family regarding extortion. I was a senior gang member at the time and ran a 24/7 in our nationalities community. One day one of my employees came to me and told me some men had been attempting to extort him for money because he was running a car raffle with some friends. Now, my membership in the gang had been eluded to in the past and so he asked if I could get these guys off his back and in return he'd be willing to pay me for protection. I agreed and went to meet the men who had been extorting him. These men happened to be low level associates in the family and had set the meeting at a deli operated by a higher level associate who also had standing business with my organization. Now these low level associates had no idea who I was, but the people above them did and immediately forced them to drop it. Extorting this raffle wasn't worth ruining our existing business relationship.

 

As I suggested before and I think is made very clear by the examples both me and @UTOPIAgave, working with a criminal entity can be incredibly useful tool to get out of extortion. In my situation I didn't even make the guy pay me protection, for me they had roughed up a valuable employee and that was worth stepping in over. Now these situations don't spring up every day and you might go on for months without a situation like that ever arising. But that's where the fun is in it. Instead of it being a paper thin, all at once relationship it's something that builds up overtime. It's not to say you can't approach the mob to solve your problems but people on this thread act like they should be getting a brochure with all the mobs offered services on 24/7 speed dial if they pay the extortion. In reality it should take some time to get to that point. If you pay up for a few weeks without issue, a organization might see you as an asset worth protecting. But even then, there's a point where it's too much. Again some people on this server get extorted and every other day they have some issue they need help with. The mob should be called for things like: People are stealing cars from my parking lot repeatedly, not: I got in a fight with my best friend and I want her murdered.

[DasFroggy]

4 hours ago, Henning said:

since your quoting half sentences

Through all of the flak, it was your choice to make a simple declaration that ultimately made the rest of your post meaningless, and I answered in turn.

 

4 hours ago, Henning said:

I never said anything about...

 

"Realism". You mentioned realism. I addressed your point by indicating that absolute realism, your second excuse in a growing chain as to why you feel only your personal satisfaction should take priority at the cost of others, is still not a valid reason to permit activities that are detrimental to the overall community enjoyment of the roleplay server. If you do not like that, do not bring it up.

 

There is nothing more you need to say here. For now, your efforts may be better reserved for addressing the limited crime options that are supposedly pushing you to perpetuating the problems we are discussing here now...

8 hours ago, Henning said:

But did anyone try to do anything about it IC?

...or do as you are suggesting others should, and actually tackle the problem IC before it is soon decided that OOC measures are needed to make up for your own inaction.

Edited December 25, 2020 by DasFroggy