How does someone get out of extortion?

[Entity]

I personally have nothing against extortion and I'd fully and happily (OOCly, at least) comply if properly executed. Groups of people (or even factions) driving around from one open business to another with little to no prior preparation is highly unrealistic. The 'is the boss around?' kind of interactions are stupid - as an extortionist, you'd already know who the boss is and you'd approach the situation in a different manner.

 

The real problem here is that extortion is barely regulated, if it is at all. I've never ever seen anyone get publicly punished for improperly portraying extortion (unless it was highly ridiculous). There's no rules, thus there's no punishments, thus it keeps happening and getting worse and worse. It's really annoying because it's a huge issue that's been going on for a long time and the people responsible for overseeing this are just ignoring it. If this is fixed, then extortion wouldn't be that big of an issue. If we go even further - if you take out the profits, trust me, barely any people will keep on doing it.

 

For real now - why are we nerfing vehicle dealerships by adding that 5% tax but allowing random people to go around ask anyone for any amount of money or else burn their business down or CK them if they don't comply? There's a huge discrepancy that needs to be adressed urgently. 

[hillievonb]

Some extortionists also ask for amounts that mean a business can't really run a profit unless the owners open it constantly, especially if it's a small niche business or one with a lot of expenses, which just leads to interesting businesses shutting down rather than dealing with it. However, that type of extortionist doesn't care, because they don't know the business, never even set foot there unless it's to collect or threaten the owner. For them, it's just a few extra grand at the end of the week that make them feel like big scary dudes, rather than any kind of accurate portrayal of anything, while ruining someone else's RP. I'm not sure why the rules for robbery don't apply here, since that's pretty much all it is.

 

This isn't just an IC problem, this is an OOC problem too because it makes the entire server poorer, less interesting and less realistic, much like robberies and people avoiding street RP even in times and places that should realistically be pretty safe, because they don't feel like dealing with the nonsense.

 

This isn't a dig at illegal RP in general, and it applies to legal RP as well in some ways, it's just that "deal with it IC" ignores the fact that even if individually someone's RP may be fine and at least possible, when you look at the big picture, a lot of individuals doing IC things, added up, can affect the game in ways that aren't very realistic at all.

Edited December 22, 2020 by hillievonb

[Giibi_]

1 hour ago, Entity said:

For real now - why are we nerfing vehicle dealerships by adding that 5% tax but allowing random people to go around ask anyone for any amount of money or else burn their business down or CK them if they don't comply? There's a huge discrepancy that needs to be adressed urgently. 

The whole idea of killing someone over not paying their taxes as an extortionist is just retarded and unreal, it happens on the server though which makes the bad side of extortion roleplay. Usually, extortionists don't look up to causing serious damage to their victims as in killing them or any of their close ones, and that's not because they care for their victims, some of them can be heartless but criminals do think of the aftermath, they know doing something might get them somewhere they don't wanna be and they don't want that to happen, if an extortion victim gets killed in real life just know they've brought it to themselves, it's been unwillingly done for the fact the victim has fucked up so bad and started causing real threat to those extortionists who participated the act on that victim. 

Usually the first interaction between the extortionist and their victim is met with force, that's like in most cases because extortionists don't walk into the door normally, if every resistance is met with death then more than 90% of extortion cases would've ended with the death of the shop owner by the 1st interaction. 

The idea of arson used to happen back in the day, but not in modern days especially not in the United States, I don't really think it does never heard of it happening in our days. But here's the deal, the choice of destroying your victims' shop doesn't really count an option unless that business is illegitimately open. Just like people who sell stuff on sidewalks and I don't know if that exists in the United States but it does in other countries, and those people can be an easy catch for extortionists because they're illegitimately opening their shops on the sidewalk. In such cases, victims receive the ultimate lie of "Providing protection", an extortionist makes you think they're protecting you from the legitimate business owners around so they won't kick you away for the fact those dudes are protecting you, which is not true because they don't give a damn about your fate, they just want their pockets filled. Now what really happens if one of them illegitimate sellers on the sidewalks don't pay is having their tiny mobile shops completely destroyed by a bunch of strangers sent by extortionists, that's why extortion must be done in groups and no, they don't go directly for the kill just like how some people on the server do, they aren't trying to catch a lawsuit because that might result in them either being locked up for life or receiving death penalty and that's not what people look up to, whether they're criminals or not both parts don't like being locked up for such long time or even being sent to death.

But anyhow, I don't think the idea of breaking someone's business, destroying it or even burning it is a thing anymore in the United States, I mean I don't live in the US but I've never heard of it happening there, so it for sure shall not be an option when it comes to roleplaying in LS.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Giibi_
typo

[TacticalDR3AD]

If your doing this the legal way, there's no way. I'd honestly say look for more extorters and let them extort others. And then! Pay back the debt you owe. But without a doubt, you'll get extorted again. 

[Chipsdose]

On 12/22/2020 at 11:17 AM, Entity said:

There's no rules, thus there's no punishments, thus it keeps happening and getting worse and worse.

1) Common Courtesy

 

That's what rule 1 is for and you are free to report unrealistic extortion attempts. I myself had good results with reporting such.

 

From an admin:

Quote

 

Now with regards to your portrayal of extortion, I find it in extremely poor taste indeed. Going around every open business wanting a 'chat' with the owners about protection and then trashing the place if they don't pay up is not only highly unrealistic, it's not how extortions work. Think about it for a minute, this approach draws A LOT of unnecessary attention to yourself and your group and you don't seem at all worried about the consequences that might have. Whilst I'll grant the fake accident was a clever decoy it seems like a lot of effort, extra risk and expense just to gain a small amount of extra income for your group. 

 

You don't just walk into an open business to offer these services out of the blue. You first create the demand for them, arranging various incidents, fights and so on then you swoop in as the saviour. You don't constantly harass owners like you have done here, trash the place then go back demanding money, it makes you look obvious.

 

 

[PunishedCosby]

At the very least, I'd hope most illegal factions aren't so shortsighted that they'd demand too much in extortion fees to bankrupt businesses in their territory. Then not listen to business owners when they actually can't pay, end up closing shop and losing more opportunities for the gang to make income. It's a lose-lose for the illegal faction and legal rper. That being said, there really should be more dangers for extortionists, or less dangers when a business decides to try and get rid of them through legal means, or working through other illegal groups. From reading the thread, it looks like things are very one sided where legal rpers are at risk of CK if they try to resist extortion, but the gangsters have much less risk.

[Smilesville]

On 12/22/2020 at 5:17 AM, Entity said:

For real now - why are we nerfing vehicle dealerships by adding that 5% tax but allowing random people to go around ask anyone for any amount of money or else burn their business down or CK them if they don't comply?

It's sad that standards for realism seem to end with civilian play - but I prefer to vote on this issue with my feet. Whether through inaction or explicit approval, this sort of behavior has been given the go-ahead, and so my natural reaction is to simply not own a business.

 

Been there.

Done that.

Far more trouble than it's worth if you're in it for the RP.

 

I really do wish someone would do something to address the very heavy Cops vs Robbers dynamic we have on the server, but I've been wishing that for a few years now. The best way to get out of extortion without throwing yourself headlong into a fight you probably don't want is to simply not own a business.

 

And it's a damn shame.

[DasFroggy]

1 hour ago, Smilesville said:

 

I really do wish someone would do something to address the very heavy Cops vs Robbers dynamic we have on the server,

Alas, quite the opposite is happening, criminals are now asking for MORE control of their victims, purely for script gains as opposed to roleplay interaction. 

 

1 hour ago, Smilesville said:

And it's a damn shame.

It really is. I come here for roleplay, even with criminals. Instead I am being told that I must forego roleplay at the OOC instructions of a niche group if I do not wish to lose my character to a one-sided CK risk.

[Entity]

4 hours ago, Chipsdose said:

1) Common Courtesy

 

That's what rule 1 is for and you are free to report unrealistic extortion attempts. I myself had good results with reporting such.

 

From an admin:

 

If we are too look at it this way, literally every single rule falls under Common Courtesy. Metagaming, powergaming, offensive roleplay, it's all related to common courtesy. The reason why we have the other rules is to specifically point out what's okay and what's not in some common situations. That's why, for example, there's a specific line about being OOCly forced to sell the garage linked to a house when selling a house. If there was nothing about this in the rules, you could just argue that you didn't include the garage in the sale contract or a billion other reasons and it becomes a he said, she said - which is exactly what's happening with extortion roleplay at the moment.

 

Your suggestion of reporting unrealistic extortion attempts is quite clearly not the solution - or else this topic wouldn't exist.

 

It's really not a big deal to address this issue, especially considering the significant attention it's been getting lately (which is, unfortunately, getting worse by the day).   

[Chipsdose]

3 hours ago, Entity said:

That's why, for example, there's a specific line about being OOCly forced to sell the garage linked to a house when selling a house

What does this have anything to do with Common Courtesy or realismus? If you experience something unrealistic ingame from an encounter with someone or whatever it is you are free to report them on the forums. That's literally what forum reports are for. You don't need a line on the rule book for every unrealistic encounter you can possibly have otherwise the rule book would consist of 100 pages with 1000000000 words, because you can't put every single rule in there without making it too big. That's what rule 1 is for, to put everything which isn't listed there under one rule. 

Like I said, if someone is extorting you and you think it wasn't approached realisticly then report them on the forums. This is a server where realismus is taking seriously and the admins follow this as well, so they would gladly help you out with it and make things fair for you.