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How does someone get out of extortion?


Santanaa

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4 hours ago, Seoul's Finest said:

Just because you think your character is above whatever organization is trying to push up on him and think that your business shouldn't be extorted, doesn't mean your feelings are facts. Although if you can show me at least one modern instance (In America, mind you) where a random civilian has decided to go up against a gang or organization as a result of extortion using violence and has ended up still alive at the end of it, I'll take my words back and agree with you.

show me one example in modern america where extortion is done by two random goons with no knowledge of the owner, no means of blackmail and no prior knowledge of the organization trying to extort you and there's mutual grounds to be reached; most extortionists try to find who the owner is the moment they decide to make their attempt. when a homie walks past security claiming to meet the owner, you know he's just trying to connect the ooc knowledge to a name to try and stack the deck after making his extortion attempt. 

what'd be viable? extortionists having proof of infidelity, proof of previous criminal connections that'd ruin a career, a lawsuit in their pocket which when settled will put the person on the street, access to helpless family back home? or two guns and an attitude that they're entitled to what they want because legal rpers are just npcs? "da, is time to meet owner yes? i have meeting with him, we discuss business" or whatever culturally insensitive business inquiry you'd like to insert into the gta:w extortionist stereotype. you want people not to find that kind of roleplay shitty? put in the work, make it engaging, find a means of extortion that wont end at the door when nobody'll point you the absolute owner of the establishment lol

but i mean business owners can just take the step towards becoming corporates, its the corporations that curbstomped the cosa nostra in vegas back in the day.

Edited by AlphaBatal
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1 hour ago, eTaylor said:

No admin commented on it, but people are saying that you get CK’ed for calling the cops. Somebody walks into your business, extorts you, and like a normal person you call 911 - CK. That’s what people are complaining about, there is no legal recourse because you loose your character. Whereas if you kill your extorters you usually get away without issues or CKs. And that life imprisonment part is a joke right? ITS NOT A THING

It is a thing. I got life imprisonment for killing two people and the murders weren't even CK's. If you CK someone and get caught for it, it's an auto life sentence. Not to mention an admin has already commented on the CK thing and made it clear that they don't just go around accepting CK's on everybody. Anybody that says they do is lying. I've never had a CK app accepted on someone who called the cops on me and didn't do anything more than that. In fact, as I said. I've only even had two CK app's accepted period.

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20 minutes ago, AlphaBatal said:

show me one example in modern america where extortion is done by two random goons with no knowledge of the owner, no means of blackmail and no prior knowledge of the organization trying to extort you and there's mutual grounds to be reached; most extortionists try to find who the owner is the moment they decide to make their attempt. when a homie walks past security claiming to meet the owner, you know he's just trying to connect the ooc knowledge to a name to try and stack the deck after making his extortion attempt. 

what'd be viable? extortionists having proof of infidelity, proof of previous criminal connections that'd ruin a career, a lawsuit in their pocket which when settled will put the person on the street, access to helpless family back home? or two guns and an attitude that they're entitled to what they want because legal rpers are just npcs? "da, is time to meet owner yes? i have meeting with him, we discuss business" or whatever culturally insensitive business inquiry you'd like to insert into the gta:w extortionist stereotype. you want people not to find that kind of roleplay shitty? put in the work, make it engaging, find a means of extortion that wont end at the door when nobody'll point you the absolute owner of the establishment lol

but i mean business owners can just take the step towards becoming corporates, its the corporations that curbstomped the cosa nostra in vegas back in the day.

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This extortion attempt was done by one goon, on camera, while the store was still open. and it was successful several times until the business owner started working with detectives.

 

In modern Los Angeles, and yes, in parts of places such as Hollywood (Vinewood), Venice Beach (Vespucci) and Koreatown (Little Seoul) extortion is very prevalent. The difference is that it's usually a race thing. Salvadoran gangs extort other Central Americans because they're less likely to call the police. Mexicans extort other Mexicans for the same reasons, Armenians extort other Armenians for the same reasons, the list goes on.

 

The thing is though, most business owners on this server are white, even in areas where realistically there'd be alot of Armenians/Salvadorans/Mexicans/Asians working their businesses, both official and unofficial. Here, players have to make do with what they're offered.

 

There's a fix for the extortion problem, and permitting business owners to shoot and CK extorters on sight isn't that fix. All it'd do is encourage trash roleplay and a play to win mentality.

Edited by Seoul's Finest
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37 minutes ago, Seoul's Finest said:

I'd be obliged to show you something if what I was saying even remotely resembled your claims. There's a fix for the extortion problem, and permitting business owners to shoot and CK extorters on sight isn't that fix. All it'd do is encourage trash roleplay and a play to win mentality.

on sight's a bold claim, even if a bit disingenuous. doubt anybody'd let the server devolve into modern warfare more than it already has, with its majestic crime rates rivaling third world extremist-controlled countries. and it seems to me like people take the fact that crime goes relatively unpunished for granted; most of the time, unless pd/sd arrives on the scene as it happens or catches you while you're trying to escape, you're off scot-free.
moreso investigations take more time than the lifespan of some factions, from the first post of gangbanger pictures and printscreens of wikipedia articles to the moment they either get in a ck war, get inactive or ifm closes them down due to quality concerns. 

though im pretty sure that if a 911 call led to an illegal faction getting torn apart by some scrappy cop that's decided to dig their teeth into a casefile, the person that made the call would be the first person getting a ck app on them, or am i wrong? call it tying off loose ends, taking vengeance for your faction or whatever.

lets hope that an reintroduction of rico laws roots out the issue of poorly-thought out rackets roaming free.

as it stands; is it an ic issue? yep.
would there be a way of handling it realistically? yep
can brazen "ooga booga me meet owner" type of roleplay be stopped the same way as you'd stop it in 2020 america? nope, there's a lack of laws, a lack of resources and an overabundance of new factions coming out of the woodwork, each less acquainted with their targets than the last one

ps. here's a 127 page rico indictment of the 2016 case against "bicho" and his associates. enjoy the read

Edited by AlphaBatal
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12 minutes ago, AlphaBatal said:

on sight's a bold claim, even if a bit disingenuous. doubt anybody'd let the server devolve into modern warfare more than it already has, with its majestic crime rates rivaling third world extremist-controlled countries. and it seems to me like people take the fact that crime goes relatively unpunished for granted; most of the time, unless pd/sd arrives on the scene as it happens or catches you while you're trying to escape, you're off scot-free.
moreso investigations take more time than the lifespan of some factions, from the first post of gangbanger pictures and printscreens of wikipedia articles to the moment they either get in a ck war, get inactive or ifm closes them down due to quality concerns. 

though im pretty sure that if a 911 call led to an illegal faction getting torn apart by some scrappy cop that's decided to dig their teeth into a casefile, the person that made the call would be the first person getting a ck app on them, or am i wrong? call it tying off loose ends, taking vengeance for your faction or whatever.

lets hope that an reintroduction of rico laws roots out the issue of poorly-thought out rackets roaming free.

as it stands; is it an ic issue? yep.
would there be a way of handling it realistically? yep
can brazen "ooga booga me meet owner" type of roleplay be stopped the same way as you'd stop it in 2020 america? nope, there's a lack of laws, a lack of resources and an overabundance of new factions coming out of the woodwork, each less acquainted with their targets than the last one

Yes, on sight. That's how I believe it'd go. To put things quite frankly without being disrespectful to anybody, I've noticed a lot of extremely trashy roleplay around extortion, and not all of it comes from the extorters themselves. I believe that a good amount of the players who are pushing for that whole 'let us CK extorters' thing have play to win mindsets. If they're afraid about being CKed for calling the cops, then they shouldn't call the cops. No need for them to hop on the forums and accuse the admins of accepting CK's that as Bospy said, they'd never accept.

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3 hours ago, Seoul's Finest said:

It is a thing. I got life imprisonment for killing two people and the murders weren't even CK's. If you CK someone and get caught for it, it's an auto life sentence. Not to mention an admin has already commented on the CK thing and made it clear that they don't just go around accepting CK's on everybody. Anybody that says they do is lying. I've never had a CK app accepted on someone who called the cops on me and didn't do anything more than that. In fact, as I said. I've only even had two CK app's accepted period.

If you shoot somebody in a store there’s literally nothing anybody can do about it unless you are caught red handed or you’re putting in your own effort to help your own prosecution. And I wonder where all these people come from saying you get CKed as a snitch for calling the police. I’ve yet to see anyone comment to on why those people got CK’ed. 

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6 hours ago, eTaylor said:

If you shoot somebody in a store there’s literally nothing anybody can do about it unless you are caught red handed or you’re putting in your own effort to help your own prosecution. And I wonder where all these people come from saying you get CKed as a snitch for calling the police. I’ve yet to see anyone comment to on why those people got CK’ed. 

Nobody's commenting on why those people got CKed because nobody got CKed for calling 911 once on a random cholo. Either that or they're lying about why they got CKed saying it was for snitching when it was for something else.

 

Not to mention that Shanks already put the CK thing to rest, so the whole 'i got cked for snitching ;(((((' thing is pretty much just a bunch of false allegations at this point.

 

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Edited by Seoul's Finest
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It should be mandatory to conduct extortion-related R.P. as long as it leads to deep R.P. and character development. John Capra did an amazing job with extorting Yoska Makula's pawn shop within Davis, offering him protection by the Conti Crew and access to firearms on a weekly basis in exchange for a weekly fee. We've developed strong relationships as BOTH allies and rivals with a Love-Hate Relationship that lasted for months. It had an actual mutual benefit rather than a win-lose situation. It became personal, not just some random "bill" that one has to pay on a weekly basis... it lead to character and faction development. On top of that, Yoska was granted access to cheap jewelry and electronics for his pawn shop, as-well. Kudos to @Alexionfor that top-tier experience.

Issue is, that's a shady pawn shop known for scamming people and selling firearms. How could this be applied to average businesses?

If extortion R.P. doesn't lead to some deep-level R.P. or character development, then it should simply be reported as a common courtesy issue and player/faction quality issue. Make it a common courtesy issue and player/faction quality issue.

Edit: 
I seriously wish that I had screens of those month-long scenes... it lead to Yoska becoming an associate for the faction after months of extortion.

Edited by DLimit
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1 hour ago, DLimit said:

Issue is, that's a shady pawn shop known for scamming people and selling firearms. How could this be applied to average businesses?

Thats just it, to be honest. Extortion RP should only be conducted on businesses that it'd be realistic to extort. Businesses whose owners do lowkey illegal shit, are illegal immigrants or are of the same racial background as those trying to extort them are the best targets for extortion, because many people who fit in those categories are less likely to call the police for a variety of reasons.

 

For example, it'd be alot more realistic for MS13/18st or pretty much any Latino gang or criminal enterprise to try to extort a shady, small time or even unofficial (Street food etc) business run by people of Salvadoran / Mexican / Hispanic descent than it would be if they strolled into a business run by Italians or Armenians demanding money. Not only could they possibly be picking a fight with another organization by doing that, but they don't really have as many effective ways of pushing up on their victims if they're Italian for example.

 

Additionally, extortion should turn into a situation where roleplay between the two parties is common, that could be done in a variety of ways. Extorters need to be more realistic in their portrayals and actually protect the places that they're trying to extort, or provide some sort of service to those running the business. This would be done by keeping tabs on the place, staying in contact with the owner and staff of the place, actually going around and checking up on things, murdering, attacking or intimidating individuals that rob or attempt to extort the same business, etc etc.

 

When MS13 extorts businesses in LA for example, their members usually become regulars at the business that's being extorted. They hang out there, watch for troublemakers and attack them if they come around trying to start trouble, they intimidate anyone else that attempts to extort the business with extreme violence and if the warning isn't heeded, that extreme violence usually follows. It's generally much the same with most other criminal organizations in LA. 

 

Although, if an extortion goes sideways for whatever reason and the business owner ends up attacked by the extorters, they should accept what happened. Although, if someone pulls a half assed extortion on you and then dm's you, I urge you to report them not only on the forums, but forward their shit to Player Management or IFM.

Edited by Seoul's Finest
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All I can say about this is you don't extort businesses by just finding them, extortion is a process where you must at first have a full data of who works in that shop, who owns it and what their influences are, what they're capable of in case you hit them up with that stuff and whether they're connected or not. 

The matter isn't all about whether you extort someone of your same descent or not, even if you extort someone from the same descent as yours because well they're illegal immigrants or whatsoever that doesn't mean you're all safe, some victims can actually go to police even if they're illegal immigrants because think about it like this, some extorters can go over the line and can be such a real pain to the ass where sometimes you might get physically hurt or your life being put on the line, that way you're going to police whatever the consequences are as long as your life is going to be saved.

If you're extorting a business just because it's within the borders of your turf doesn't mean you're all safe too, some people can be connected and even if it's your hood that doesn't mean you can't be touched, let's remember that not everyone works in a shop in the same neighborhood they live in, so with that you don't have much power to retaliate if you don't have full data of your victims. 

Another point is, you have to know who's in there, are they just employees or are they the owners of the establishment? Both cases you have to know who they are, what they're capable of doing and whether you're gonna step on someone's toes that might fuck you up or not. 

Extortion is dirty business, and incapable of being done by one person, it has to be done in a group because here's what's up, if you want to extort someone you don't really just extort them by causing harm to their personal self or their businesses, you're sending them a message that you're going to be a direct threat to them and their families in case they fuck up, and even if you get arrested some people are going to be out there to execute the orders, most victims can secure themselves and save their own lives but for sure not their relatives, they hit you at a spot that's gonna hurt, they fuck with those you care for that's what I mean by having full data of your whole life, relations, where you live and whom you interact with on the daily. 


Last thing I wanna say is that extortion isn't always done by crime organizations, it can be done by street gangs too. It's just all about extorting something the same level as yours, in both cases extortion doesn't happen in fancy areas where everything is secured, it's more done in poverty stricken areas and those places full of people who can not retaliate or aren't even important. For example, you don't go extort a business just like Bahamas Mammas or one of them fancy night clubs up Vinewood hills because well you're connected with an OCG, doesn't work that way nope. I just wanted to bring this example up because I've seen it happening, people just think of extortion as just by entering a business and asking for money, that's not the deal and not how it works.

On how to get out of extortion? That's on you honestly, it all depends on how it's done IC, you have to find a way out and squeeze through the cracks of your extorter's flaws or just accept your fate and keep paying your taxes.

Edited by Giibi_
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