How does someone get out of extortion?

[Garras Up]

On 12/16/2020 at 3:51 AM, Alyssa McCarthy said:

When everyone has the money to afford everything they want, crime becomes mostly redundant.

As for getting out of extortion, it seems that the risk is all on the 'victim' - People extorting others should be at the risk of a CK if either the owner of the business kills them or the police arrest them.

 

Just seems a huge power imbalance, and one easily exploited if the people on this thread are suggesting things work they way they say.

 

Nah i dont think criminals should be at risk of being cked during extortion aslong as they rp it right, but i think there should be harsh sentences for it, especially if you're doing it ic for the benefit of a street gang or criminal organization. Business owners don't want to end up having their char cked due to extortion, but nor do criminals.

 

Not to mention, CK's are only approved in extreme circumstances or where the victim is immensely disregarding rules around roleplaying fear, the same goes for criminals who get CK apps put on them. CK apps don't get accepted on regular civilians for calling 911 as much as people like to think.

 

 

[knppel]

6 hours ago, Garras Up said:

Nah i dont think criminals should be at risk of being cked during extortion aslong as they rp it right

Agreeing to this, and furthermore:

I don't think just also resorting to murdering people as preemptive measure against further action, or as retaliation for an extortion attempt, is the route the average legal business holder should go down.

Of course, in drastic cases it might be appropriate, but not as general go-to strategy.

 

Furthermore, if we're talking of ck's as tactical measure, think tactically:

Refusing someone a few thousand dollar from your lowly revenue is, both ic and in case someone asks for permissions to kill you, less likely to have consequences than trying to murder the guy for asking 5k.

 

The later will not just force them in a defensive position making them much more likely to harm you, but also is a criminal act in itself, risking to incriminate the "legal" character with a dark murder secret (or getting busted because they're no professional criminal and someone talks, lol).

 

And of course, while I can't speak for the staff handling the applications, common sense indicates that a request on a potentially murderous business operator that goes guns blazing on their own over some petty money, is more likely to be granted than on one that tries to duck and weasel their way out halfway - what was the word, ah right, civily.

Edited December 18, 2020 by knppel

[Vash Baldeus]

On 12/18/2020 at 7:15 AM, Garras Up said:

Nah i dont think criminals should be at risk of being cked during extortion aslong as they rp it right, but i think there should be harsh sentences for it, especially if you're doing it ic for the benefit of a street gang or criminal organization. Business owners don't want to end up having their char cked due to extortion, but nor do criminals.

 

Not to mention, CK's are only approved in extreme circumstances or where the victim is immensely disregarding rules around roleplaying fear, the same goes for criminals who get CK apps put on them. CK apps don't get accepted on regular civilians for calling 911 as much as people like to think.

 

 

Meaning the Business owner can be CK'd yet criminal not? Unfair play here. High risk high reward.

[Garras Up]

2 hours ago, Vash Baldeus said:

Meaning the Business owner can be CK'd yet criminal not? Unfair play here. High risk high reward.

I'd appreciate it if you gave my comment a proper read and refrained from putting words in my mouth, please & thank you. 

 

It's not an unfair play. If you don't roleplay fear of criminal organizations and end up murdered by them, you'll be CKed. If you don't rp fear in prison and end up dead, you'll be CKed. If a criminal doesn't rp fear of the police and shoots at them, dying in the process. More often on that they'll be CKed.

 

The criminal, no matter what group he's from, is part of an illegal organization, many of which have ties all over the country and in different countries. Nobody in their right mind would attempt to kill a mobster or gang member for trying to extort them. Going to other organizations or the police is a reasonable course of action, but CKing people for extorting your character sounds and would look absolutely ridiculous.

 

I can just Imagine some 21 year old female with a PF and a business just casually pulling out their pistol and shooting an MS-13 or 18th Street gang member or some mafia gangster in the face with no kind of fear whatsoever because she knows OOC'ly that extortion = CK... Yeah, no thanks. We don't need that kind of stuff here bro lmao.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Garras Up

[Seoul's Finest]

2 hours ago, Vash Baldeus said:

Meaning the Business owner can be CK'd yet criminal not? Unfair play here. High risk high reward.

There's not one business owner I've ever met in the world that's completely on some legal shit, yet has the balls to shoot a gang member or a mafia affiliate for trying to extort his business, that'd be suicide and I guarantee you it'd also end in the business having molotovs thrown into it and/or riddled with bullets, along with alot of the workers being kidnapped & disappeared, or simply dying in the aftermath. That'd especially be the case if somebody that was actually important was CKed as a result of an extortion.

 

Not to mention that it's already a high risk, high reward thing, this whole 'make criminals ck if we shoot them' suggestion is just going to make business owners behave even more unrealistically than they already do when they get extorted. Most of them are angry OOCly about the fact that they're being pushed up on by criminals so they look for any avenue to get out of it as fast as possible, and I guarantee you if the rule you want so badly was implemented, it'd end up in business owners just shooting gang members & mafia characters on sight even if they actually try to roleplay a proper extortion attempt.

 

Extortion roleplay requires alot of improvement on all sides, there's not one side in all of this that isn't at fault for the way things are. Law enforcement is partially at fault for not cracking down IC on extortion, business owners are sometimes at fault for unrealistic roleplay when extorted (Such as shooting off snide comments to possibly armed gang members with facial tattoos), a p2w mentality, a lack of knowledge on the subject among various other things, while illegal rpers are at fault in terms of some of the more poorly executed extortion attempts that have been roleplayed.

 

Just because you think your character is above whatever organization is trying to push up on him and think that your business shouldn't be extorted, doesn't mean your feelings are facts. Although if you can show me at least one modern instance (In America, mind you) where a random civilian has decided to go up against a gang or organization as a result of extortion using violence and has ended up still alive at the end of it, I'll take my words back and agree with you.

[eTaylor]

27 minutes ago, Seoul's Finest said:

There's not one business owner I've ever met in the world that's completely on some legal shit, yet has the balls to shoot a gang member or a mafia affiliate for trying to extort his business, that'd be suicide and I guarantee you it'd also end in the business having molotovs thrown into it and/or riddled with bullets, along with alot of the workers being kidnapped & disappeared, or simply dying in the aftermath. That'd especially be the case if somebody that was actually important was CKed as a result of an extortion.

 

Not to mention that it's already a high risk, high reward thing, this whole 'make criminals ck if we shoot them' suggestion is just going to make business owners behave even more unrealistically than they already do when they get extorted. Most of them are angry OOCly about the fact that they're being pushed up on by criminals so they look for any avenue to get out of it as fast as possible, and I guarantee you if the rule you want so badly was implemented, it'd end up in business owners just shooting gang members & mafia characters on sight even if they actually try to roleplay a proper extortion attempt.

 

Extortion roleplay requires alot of improvement on all sides, there's not one side in all of this that isn't at fault for the way things are. Law enforcement is partially at fault for not cracking down IC on extortion, business owners are sometimes at fault for unrealistic roleplay when extorted (Such as shooting off snide comments to possibly armed gang members with facial tattoos), a p2w mentality, a lack of knowledge on the subject among various other things, while illegal rpers are at fault in terms of some of the more poorly executed extortion attempts that have been roleplayed.

 

Just because you think your character is above whatever organization is trying to push up on him and think that your business shouldn't be extorted, doesn't mean your feelings are facts. Although if you can show me at least one modern instance (In America, mind you) where a random civilian has decided to go up against a gang or organization as a result of extortion using violence and has ended up still alive at the end of it, I'll take my words back and agree with you.

Why are large corporate businesses and chain franchises being extorted by street gonks? Businesses who, mind you, would be the absolute last place you’d look to extort? 

[Vash Baldeus]

29 minutes ago, Seoul's Finest said:

There's not one business owner I've ever met in the world that's completely on some legal shit, yet has the balls to shoot a gang member or a mafia affiliate for trying to extort his business, that'd be suicide and I guarantee you it'd also end in the business having molotovs thrown into it and/or riddled with bullets, along with alot of the workers being kidnapped & disappeared, or simply dying in the aftermath. That'd especially be the case if somebody that was actually important was CKed as a result of an extortion.

 

Not to mention that it's already a high risk, high reward thing, this whole 'make criminals ck if we shoot them' suggestion is just going to make business owners behave even more unrealistically than they already do when they get extorted. Most of them are angry OOCly about the fact that they're being pushed up on by criminals so they look for any avenue to get out of it as fast as possible, and I guarantee you if the rule you want so badly was implemented, it'd end up in business owners just shooting gang members & mafia characters on sight even if they actually try to roleplay a proper extortion attempt.

 

Extortion roleplay requires alot of improvement on all sides, there's not one side in all of this that isn't at fault for the way things are. Law enforcement is partially at fault for not cracking down IC on extortion, business owners are sometimes at fault for unrealistic roleplay when extorted (Such as shooting off snide comments to possibly armed gang members with facial tattoos), a p2w mentality, a lack of knowledge on the subject among various other things, while illegal rpers are at fault in terms of some of the more poorly executed extortion attempts that have been roleplayed.

 

Just because you think your character is above whatever organization is trying to push up on him and think that your business shouldn't be extorted, doesn't mean your feelings are facts. Although if you can show me at least one modern instance (In America, mind you) where a random civilian has decided to go up against a gang or organization as a result of extortion using violence and has ended up still alive at the end of it, I'll take my words back and agree with you.

I mean, after seeing how a few people do extortion, it's a cookie cutter scheme nothing unique. Currently? Business owner has 0 way of dealing with in even Legally. So, if a business owner opens fire without provocation (justified provocation that is) then yea' report him to admins. But if business owner hires security and they shoot the criminal dead during an altercation? I believe it should apply a PK at minimum and no, criminal has 0 right to come and try to extort AGAIN for at least a month. But that's not the case, criminal can CK the business owner but the criminal faces 0 chances for being CK'd by PD/Security or in case there's a justified altercation between both parties where criminal severely provoked with weapon usage? Business owner who legally owns a weapon should be able to defend himself.

 

Moreover, it is 2020, we roleplay 2020's, during this day and age there's CCTV & Cameras EVERYWHERE! The CCTV rule for outside use should be adjusted that if it's Mapped Physically outside, no permission is required. Currently all the odds are stacked to the criminals advantage.

 

Also, we got quite a few chain robbers already on the server who just fly low enough below the admin radar they are not caught yet. So yes, you go an try to extort or rob someone? Make it fair playing ground, meaning both parties can loose their character.

 

Moreover, regarding this:

Quote

Extortion roleplay requires alot of improvement on all sides, there's not one side in all of this that isn't at fault for the way things are. Law enforcement is partially at fault for not cracking down IC on extortion, business owners are sometimes at fault for unrealistic roleplay when extorted (Such as shooting off snide comments to possibly armed gang members with facial tattoos), a p2w mentality, a lack of knowledge on the subject among various other things, while illegal rpers are at fault in terms of some of the more poorly executed extortion attempts that have been roleplayed.

My character had 2 attempts to be extorted both ended with the criminal party backing down. First attempt was done, security was hired, business had visible guards, police was notified as well. Eventually for whatever reason, the criminal party ceased it's attempts to extort.

 

Second attempt was a guy coming to my business offering my employee to join some Downtown Business Union, which I read between the lines when told about the name, plain extortion. Moreover, after being told to speak to the owner of business he did not like the reply, 2~3 hours later, sent his men to try and bash the business which ended with 2 of them shot as they almost ran my character over with a car, 1 survived and was identified by my character after FD took his mask off. After that original business owner was notified and I have not seen that guy who attempted extortion visit ever again.

 

In the example above, my character has legal weapon, has also a Guard Card license as well, she only shot at the two who came to bash the business only because they put her life in immediate danger by almost running her over with their car, after which they came out of the car with bats in hand and were within 6feet / 2 meters distance from my character on top of being masked, my character put them down and called the police. All this happened on a premises that has CCTV.

 

When my character is being under extortion attempts she contacts security firm, police and tried to go the legal route. The only way she'll shoot the criminal down is if her life is in danger and there's no other way to solve the situation.

[Seoul's Finest]

30 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

Why are large corporate businesses and chain franchises being extorted by street gonks?

They shouldn't be is one of my main points. When's the last time you walked into McDonald's for example and saw some cholo or russian dude tryna shake the owners down for money?

 

15 minutes ago, Vash Baldeus said:

criminal can CK the business owner but the criminal faces 0 chances for being CK'd by PD/Security or in case there's a justified altercation between both parties where criminal severely provoked with weapon usage?

If a criminal CK's a business owner and gets caught for it they get life in prison and never get to roleplay their character on the streets again. That's even IF the ck app gets accepted (Which they rarely do. Out of every single CK app I've sent in, two have been accepted. I've sent in a total of 20 over the years.

[Seoul's Finest]

17 minutes ago, Vash Baldeus said:

Also, we got quite a few chain robbers already on the server who just fly low enough below the admin radar they are not caught yet. So yes, you go an try to extort or rob someone? Make it fair playing ground, meaning both parties can loose their character.

Also gonna add that the people going around chain-robbing AREN'T faction members and if they are, they don't care about proper rp whatsoever. Inserting some system that's meant to punish them isn't going to work, because they're not gonna care. They'll ck their char, make a new one that's similar but somewhat different and continue what they were doing. All the whole 'ck' thing would do is punish actual roleplayers who wanna provide proper high quality roleplay.

[eTaylor]

2 hours ago, Seoul's Finest said:

They shouldn't be is one of my main points. When's the last time you walked into McDonald's for example and saw some cholo or russian dude tryna shake the owners down for money?

 

If a criminal CK's a business owner and gets caught for it they get life in prison and never get to roleplay their character on the streets again. That's even IF the ck app gets accepted (Which they rarely do. Out of every single CK app I've sent in, two have been accepted. I've sent in a total of 20 over the years.

No admin commented on it, but people are saying that you get CK’ed for calling the cops. Somebody walks into your business, extorts you, and like a normal person you call 911 - CK. That’s what people are complaining about, there is no legal recourse because you loose your character. Whereas if you kill your extorters you usually get away without issues or CKs. And that life imprisonment part is a joke right? ITS NOT A THING

Edited December 20, 2020 by eTaylor