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How does someone get out of extortion?


caballero

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13 minutes ago, Greyfeather said:

See, this is something I've asked now a couple of times on the extortion "guide". My question was whether, since it seems that there are no real in-game mechanisms to impose harsh sanctions on extorters, extorters should nevertheless RP that the police and DA's office have the power to do so - you know, like these organizations do in reality. I then asked whether that reality should form part of the extorter's risk-reward analysis to determine whether or not they'd extort a business owner they're sure is just going to call the police. 

 

You do have a valid point. But good illegal rp factions and players do in RP show fear of law enforcement investigations. For example, I've witnessed people do things like get rid of phones or skip town after high profile crimes to avoid detection, although it's highly unlikely that PD will pursue a heavy investigation. This also leads to why RICO laws would be good for the server. 

 

20 minutes ago, Greyfeather said:

Like the majority of IRL business owners who are approached by some random stranger making theats against their life and livelihood would.

 

This isn't necessarily true. In real life most extortion is committed against ethnic businesses and industries infiltrated by organized crime (some examples of this include street gang influence over some record labels, the mob's former role in the construction industry, or how the Indian Mafia controls Bolywood). In the case of ethnic businesses, groups like MS13 and Armenian Power will extort business owners from their own communities and the owners are afraid to go to the police because of several reasons such as their poor English skills, fear of retaliation, or possibly their immigration status being threatened. When non ethnic  businesses or high profile industries are extorted it usually stems from blackmail and in that case a businessman would be scared to seek legal help, 

 

26 minutes ago, Greyfeather said:

Yet on the other hand, they're quite keen on me RPing fear and rolling over to comply - because, realistic character portrayal.

 

Yes, because a goody two shoes "100 percent legal" kind of person would generally be scared of a hardened criminal. 

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First of all. Physical extortion is usually done by hired thugs, you think an organization would risk exposing their "trusted" troops like that? No they wouldn't. Some thugs are paid to deliver the message so the group actually stays out of sight. Why? Cause they know what follows if they don't execute it properly. This isn't 90s and LS isn't Bolivia. You don't rule by terror anymore, you either have few cops in your pocket or you ain't doing business. Sentence for extortion aside from fees and property confiscation is 3 to 14 years.

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8 minutes ago, Engelbert said:

First of all. Physical extortion is usually done by hired thugs, you think an organization would risk exposing their "trusted" troops like that? No they wouldn't. Some thugs are paid to deliver the message so the group actually stays out of sight. Why? Cause they know what follows if they don't execute it properly. This isn't 90s and LS isn't Bolivia. You don't rule by terror anymore, you either have few cops in your pocket or you ain't doing business. Sentence for extortion aside from fees and property confiscation is 3 to 14 years.

Sure, that makes sense, but when those thugs are hauled in by the cops there's also risk they'll roll over on their bosses - especially if they're not the "trusted troops" - to avoid a particularly punitive prison sentence. This is how entire organizations can come down as underlings give up bigger fish, who then give up even bigger ones.

 

Should this be part of your risk assessment? Or not?

12 minutes ago, voucher said:

This isn't necessarily true. In real life most extortion is committed against ethnic businesses and industries infiltrated by organized crime (some examples of this include street gang influence over some record labels, the mob's former role in the construction industry, or how the Indian Mafia controls Bolywood). In the case of ethnic businesses, groups like MS13 and Armenian Power will extort business owners from their own communities and the owners are afraid to go to the police

 

You're making the point I have been making all along - and that so many of us are. The objection we have is to the random stranger who wanders in and starts throwing his weight around with no no context, no background, and no community, socio-economic, or ethnic ties to justify it. Extortion requires the utmost secrecy, especially from the victim.

 

If a person I have never met before just shows up and threatens my life IRL, I'm calling the police. You would too. Unless...but then we get back to the nuance and context required for realistic extortion portrayal.

 

There's a really good couple of posts over on the other thread that show how extortion could actually work for everyone, but it requires the extorter to do more than just show up, and then start breaking things and hurting people when they don't get their cash fix. 

 

Befriending the owner, doing some small favors, asking for a few small favors in response, and then finding that over time the owner now considers himself/herself your friend and is more malleable and likely to see the value in paying you for services you have demonstrated you're capabable of providing. 

 

So much of what I'm reading - including that execrable extortion guide - is just a case of "give me what I want or hulk smash!" 

 

It's laughable.

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Yes it is part of risk assessment, that's why such thugs are recruited only for one-time hits and only when business owner refuses. It is hard to tell how it works lately cause this is, how it worked in 90s and not everywhere, for example in slavic countries the mob just walked into a restaurant and told manager to pay or they shoot everyone inside right now.

Edited by Engelbert
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18 minutes ago, Greyfeather said:

Befriending the owner, doing some small favors, asking for a few small favors in response, and then finding that over time the owner now considers himself/herself your friend...

If criminals actually went through these steps, I would offer no resistance to attempts at extortion, as at that point I would know my money would be going to people genuinely invested in this exchange.

 

...and I think that is where the issue rests - we have a population of criminals that are not interested in the work and investment that goes behind genuine extortion. They want a quick cash infusion with literally zero commitment or risk, and now we are seeing a few throwing up flak suggestions that reliably fail, in order to preserve the status quo of easy low-risk/effort money.

 

What is truly depressing is to think that once this meta is patched with very real rules and consequences, the low-quality criminals will just hunt down a new meta to abuse until it too requires a fix...

Edited by DasFroggy
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THIS:

 

You come into my business, you're friendly to me, and you buy some of my products. I think you're great. But a week or two later, not only do you come back, but you bring friends! You tell me how you've been raving about my shop (they nod dutifully at your story because they're on your payroll to do exactly that) and then they also buy some of my products. 

 

I then think you're wonderful and that you care about me and my business. I don't exactly know why, except that you're nice and you're charismatic, and that you're a business owner like me who just "gets" me. Now you start to slowly leverage our new relationship into what you actually want it to be. You later trick me, with my deeper sense of obligation to you, to take stolen goods as a favor to you. Guess what you've now just made me? ...Feel free to fill in the rest of the story.

 

OR:

 

You walk into my business, demand "where is owner?" and make a TV-miniseries style offer I can't refuse or you'll destroy me physically and financially. 

 

The first option isn't that difficult, and the creative ways you can trap me are boundless, and would also provide both of us with a rich RP experience. But it requires you to think beyond a mere certainty that everyone will agree with you instantaneously that you're a big bad gangster and that they should bow down to your demands - no matter how cartoonish those demands might be.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Greyfeather said:

Befriending the owner, doing some small favors, asking for a few small favors in response, and then finding that over time the owner now considers himself/herself your friend and is more malleable and likely to see the value in paying you for services you have demonstrated you're capabable of providing. 

EDIT: Used the wrong phrase. Meant to state that "It cannot be more truthful".

Edited by DLimit
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2 minutes ago, DLimit said:

Cannot be further from the truth.

Aaaaaaaand a generalization emerges.

 

Apparently you missed the point I also made that this is all contextual. This approach might not be needed in a lower socio-economic area, or ethnic enclave, where power structures are apparent to all.

 

But it might work in another area where they're not so clear.

 

🙄

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4 minutes ago, Greyfeather said:

Aaaaaaaand a generalization emerges.

 

Apparently you missed the point I also made that this is all contextual. This approach might not be needed in a lower socio-economic area, or ethnic enclave, where power structures are apparent to all.

 

But it might work in another area where they're not so clear.

 

🙄

EDIT: Used the improper phrase. Meant to state that it cannot be more truthful.

Edited by DLimit
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1 minute ago, DLimit said:

"Cannot be further from the truth" means that it's truthful. Extortion occurs through developing relationships, not by storming into a room and demanding it.

image.jpeg.44f445aee8c68298f6d40838ba5ce468.jpeg
 
“This couldn't be further from the truth” is a roundabout way to say something is a lie. It is completely false, bogus, deceptive, untrue, fake, not truthful; it is so far from the truth that it is not even close to being true.
 
But I also understand what you're saying. 🙂
Edited by Greyfeather
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