How does someone get out of extortion?

[Shanks]

1 hour ago, AlphaBatal said:

one resolution that ifm can look into and implement: people that arent about that life are going to call the police. "snitching" is a valid thing in the hood, barrio or whatever backward slum your criminal character comes from, but the reason extortion doesn't happen irl is because you're sure that people in polite society would involve law enforcement. so why ck someone for doing what their legal character would do, as their only actual option? because you stepped on a criminal's toes, or because your ck got approved as if you're an illegal faction member that just turncoated on their group? get real, you're punishing people for doing the only proper thing they do. stop holding back roleplay from legal factions and law enforcement by holding a noose around one side's neck and playing favorites

I don't know who's informing you about IFM policies or the way we handle CK's, but people are constantly informed in their CK apps that come in to go to other lengths before the murder is even considered on people they extort. As these are situations they create themselves and I fully agree, normal citizens would call the police, and there's plenty of ways to handle that outside of the murdering rush. Which we do enforce.

People don't just randomly get CK applications approved off of a one time incident of someone going to police over a situation like that. Applications require build-up and they require logical sense as well as it is a last-resort option. That's a long way unless something escalated in a situation.

[AlphaBatal]

1 minute ago, Shanks said:

I don't know who's informing you about IFM policies or the way we handle CK's, but people are constantly informed in their CK apps that come in to go to other lengths before the murder is even considered on people they extort. As these are situations they create themselves and I fully agree, normal citizens would call the police, and there's plenty of ways to handle that outside of the murdering rush. Which we do enforce.

People don't just randomly get CK applications approved off of a one time incident of someone going to police over a situation like that. Applications require build-up and they require logical sense as well as it is a last-resort option. That's a long way unless something escalated in a situation.

i'm informed as much as the other guy; legal roleplayers dont really deal with ifm other than the occassional faction audit and god forbid, ck. safe to say, murdering rush is the go-to on the server, which looks to me like a hole in the wall through which the dated samp mentality's seeping through. that's an opinion that isnt just mine, and if it's to change, rules and precedents must be set. as it stands, legal roleplayers are afraid of ifm handing their character over to some dude over them not playing into an extortion attempt and calling the police. they're afraid that they'll be treated the same way illegal rpers treat their own snitches. read the thread through, it's an ooc fear. a fear of losing a character you've put hours into, effort into developing a business for and obviously, actual ooc money for. you think you can run a unique business without donating? nah, you cant. you pay for gold/platinum to be able to compete in advertisement just to keep your business afloat. if you want to change the public view on things like that, start with making it known that;

treating legal rpers like illegal rpers doesnt work and that its a two-way street; the owner of a business isnt taking a risk, it's the people trying to extort them. if you want me to be well-informed about ifm policies and the way you handle cks, let the people know, plant your foot down, set a precedent. the way the legal roleplay community sees it and the way you do it is likely different, so reveal the process so people know just how big the stick swung at them is

[charles]

I'm kind of surprised extortion even happens in LS. I can understand if extortion happens in lower-income neighbourhoods, where gangs are more relevant and hold more local power/influence, sure. But in Rockford or Vinewood? Extortion seems a bit over the top. The heat generated from extorting a business in such a high-profile area should alone, stave away the idea of extorting a business. The option to go to the LSPD is much more available, compared to when extorting was viable, like in the 1920's.

 

But it doesn't.

 

An illegal faction's existence should be kept to a complete minimal, the associates shouldn't even know they're working for an organized crime ring. It's all done so the existence is kept safe. I may be wrong, but I know that's how it's done from a LCN angle. 

 

Extortion in 2020 is not a viable option of illegal income, as it would realistically generate too much heat for yourself, and your crew. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Charlesvito

[knppel]

52 minutes ago, AlphaBatal said:

which looks to me like a hole in the wall through which the dated samp mentality's seeping through

What's this with everyone here thinking you got smarter since samp?
I laugh.

 

I honestly can't tell what's more hilarious- the (false) claim that no option but violent shootouts existed in samp, or the (OMG irony!) claim contradictory to your own line of argumentation ("dated samp mentality") that states it's actually still the same way here (which it never was but hey lol).

 

1 hour ago, Shanks said:

I don't know who's informing you about IFM policies or the way we handle CK's

12 pages myths and rumours here on this forum thread.

Oh and, don't forget the seasoned 'old friends' who are new to such systems and greet you with "OMG you might get CKd here you know right so be careful!!!111".

 

The guy forgot to mention that in his shut thread, but that's the one point where transparency can be used by staff effectively, if you bother:

Anonymized statistics about how many cks due to refused extortion actually were granted the past month, for instance, so we all can stop assuming and talk out of our arses (exceptions that brought examples that actually took place ig stating the rule).

 

[AlphaBatal]

14 minutes ago, knppel said:

What's this with everyone here thinking you got smarter since samp?
I laugh.

 

I honestly can't tell what's more hilarious- the (false) claim that no option but violent shootouts existed in samp, or the (OMG irony!) claim contradictory to your own line of argumentation ("dated samp mentality") that states it's actually still the same way here (which it never was but hey lol).

as it stands the vast majority of people responsible for the pointless deathmatching are samp rejects. yes, there are good, quality roleplayers and yes, there are folk on here that are so toxic that they've been evading bans on there for more than five years and came to gtaw in search of greener pastures. two extremes, but i don't need to prove a subjective opinion to anybody; most of the people ive spoken with that do deathmatch do indeed have a samp background, it's just the way they've been doing it there for close to ten years now. if any of the dm montage folk read this, i mean you. :^)

Edited December 15, 2020 by AlphaBatal

[knppel]

Speaking of "vast majorities", that was basically my point:

3 hours ago, AlphaBatal said:

samp rejects

I don't have much insight in the whole samp community , but as for the roleplaying scene that's nowadays active here, it's safe to say that "deathmatchy" behaviour, as  described in various posts, was generally always frowned upon (and on case by case base also punished by staff decisions following reports on rule breaks, same as we now handle it here).

 

Now why am I so certain this impression of yours is as wrong for gtaw as it was for lsrp, imho?

Simply put, I play a prime target character that's obnoxious, wealthy and openly ambitious.

If there was big frequent squads roaming the town constantly for collages, I'd be pretty sure they would have caught her for that by now (I take walks ic too and all- it's not because I let her parked in a safe home whenever online).

 

Do I see randomly erupting violence or fall victim to it occasionaly? Sure, that happens.

Do I assume 3rd parties are generally deathmatching just because a reason for an action is not known to me or my character? No.

Do I see it so often on the streets that the task of dodging bullets all day left my character so exhausted and traumatized I don't wanna play anymore? Neither.

Did I get shot at by most people with whom I was not fully cooperative ic? Certainly not.

 

In fact I wasn't shot at at all since I started to play here, not counting in rare stray bullets not aimed for me my character happens to run into.

And I had extortion and attempts already, sometimes coughed up, sometimes refused, sometimes argued, but the scenario transported here by many posts-small business operator with no faction backing refuses demands, gets torched immediately- just didn't happen to me so far.

 

Hence why I am inclined to believe that handling staff as well as a vast majority of players here engaging in some acts put some minimum common sense into their character's actions or staff decisions.

 

As always, I might be wrong and just too naive and have missed the few douzen poor business holders being ck'd for not paying 5k the past weeks while digging into the business scene ic, but, yeah. 😛

 

[Jari13X]

 

5 hours ago, Charlesvito said:

I'm kind of surprised extortion even happens in LS. I can understand if extortion happens in lower-income neighbourhoods, where gangs are more relevant and hold more local power/influence, sure. But in Rockford or Vinewood? Extortion seems a bit over the top. The heat generated from extorting a business in such a high-profile area should alone, stave away the idea of extorting a business. The option to go to the LSPD is much more available, compared to when extorting was viable, like in the 1920's.

 

But it doesn't.

 

An illegal faction's existence should be kept to a complete minimal, the associates shouldn't even know they're working for an organized crime ring. It's all done so the existence is kept safe. I may be wrong, but I know that's how it's done from a LCN angle. 

 

Extortion in 2020 is not a viable option of illegal income, as it would realistically generate too much heat for yourself, and your crew. 

Extortion is a thing because there is little opportunities to do anything else as a criminal.

[slick!]

1 hour ago, Certified Lover Boy Jola said:

 

Extortion is a thing because there is little opportunities to do anything else as a criminal.

This. There's no way to do any other form of crime outside of violent crimes, selling drugs, selling guns, and then legal front businesses. That's all illegal rp is at surface level. Those who are able to do more have to do it for absolutely no return, they invest their time in doing things like insurance fraud, credit card skimming, etc. and don't receive anything in turn. So, that's why there's extortion in major parts of LS.

[Alyssa McCarthy]

When everyone has the money to afford everything they want, crime becomes mostly redundant.

As for getting out of extortion, it seems that the risk is all on the 'victim' - People extorting others should be at the risk of a CK if either the owner of the business kills them or the police arrest them.

 

Just seems a huge power imbalance, and one easily exploited if the people on this thread are suggesting things work they way they say.

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Alyssa McCarthy

[RocknRolla]

It's pretty simple really, you either go to the cops or you pay someone else for protection against the person who is extorting you. However this is something that happens IC, you shouldn't really ask for help on here since it's an IC matter. Your character should be the one figuring it out.