hillievonb Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Obviously, refusal to pay should not be grounds for a CK (honestly, neither should reporting the incident to the police, these are normal behaviors that in 2020 civilized countries do not represent non-fear RP) barring circumstances like actually being a shady business owner or allowing yourself to get involved with the criminal group in question somehow. Link to comment
Varyegar Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 48 minutes ago, ChromaticDeath said: Extortion needs a serious, serious reform. In its current state, it is completely biased against legal roleplayers and requires no reason or rhyme behind it. Factions can walk into any business they want, ask for the owner, and the end result will always either be: The employees rat on the owner, who pays the group who provides no services at all for them in return for script money. The owner refuses to pay the group script money or goes to the police, resulting in the owner being subject to a CK. The employees say the owner isn't there, which is a temporary fix for a permanent issue. The player stops running their business altogether, Because they become disheartened. I have personally ran into a newer player who currently runs a restaurant I will leave unnamed who joined the server, in three weeks applied for a business, and immediately after receiving their property, were approached by East European Faction no. 143, who will also remain unnamed. They didn't want to do illegal roleplay in any capacity and were faced with a brick wall of options otherwise (having no connects in PD, SD, or illegal factions due to being new to the server), so they deleted their character and business both, and moved to a location where they could roleplay in peace. Not everyone wants to be part of your Tarantino film. There exist players on this server who want to have a good time running a legal business and not being bothered by 1920s Chicago mafia tactics. The current approach on not only extortion, but certain aspects of organized crime's interaction with legal characters and business owners both is laughable and seems like a rigged game in favor of mob rule. While I think illegal factions should be allowed to always try to extort businesses, I also think there should be clearer options for those businesses to either have a contact within PD, knowledge of their ability to hire private firms like Gruppe 6, or other viable options that would make it not necessary to face CK consequences just for not wanting to pay up to a faction that doesn't do anything for you. If they came around and gave a reputation to your business, then that would add something, but as it stands right now, it's just "lol you're in our turf pay up or face death".. At most gangs like that break a window or two to theaten the business owner, but often it never evolves beyond that as the consequences IRL really isn't worth trying to do anything too illegal. I totally agree that the CK rules should be changed. It should not be that easy to potentially lose a character you have worked hard on. Link to comment
Daquan Kingston Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) You get out of extortion by not walking in it in first place. Take your time to see and analyze the area and location you invest a lifetime worth of savings with six digits, instead of having a dumb ass character. EDIT: I had a Restaurant in Paleto Bay which was subject to illegal RP, I made sure to roleplay fear and fuck off. Then I had a bar in Vespucci who is still active to this day after 8 months and never had any problems because my character learned his mistakes. Edited December 11, 2020 by Daquan Kingston 2 Link to comment
Torlo Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Daquan Kingston said: You get out of extortion by not walking in it in first place. Take your time to see and analyze the area and location you invest a lifetime worth of savings with six digits, instead of having a dumb ass character. EDIT: I had a Restaurant in Paleto Bay which was subject to illegal RP, I made sure to roleplay fear and fuck off. Then I had a bar in Vespucci who is still active to this day after 8 months and never had any problems because my character learned his mistakes. Except this is still highly unrealistic, in reality you don't have to research which part of town you'll be extorted by 1960s wanna be gangsters because it doesn't happen anymore. Link to comment
ChromaticDeath Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Daquan Kingston said: You get out of extortion by not walking in it in first place. Take your time to see and analyze the area and location you invest a lifetime worth of savings with six digits, instead of having a dumb ass character. EDIT: I had a Restaurant in Paleto Bay which was subject to illegal RP, I made sure to roleplay fear and fuck off. Then I had a bar in Vespucci who is still active to this day after 8 months and never had any problems because my character learned his mistakes. Nonsense. @rasbruu and myself both own businesses a stone's throw from Rockford Hills and we still get generic NPC bad guys coming in to shake us down. A legal roleplayer should not have to "learn the lay of the land" and "plan around" being extorted in the year of 2020 in a civilized western nation. This is not Chechnya, this is not Albania, this isn't Russia or Brazil. This is the United States of America. If you think the status quo of extortion roleplay isn't wrong I think you have a misconception as to what is realistic in the current day and age. Random civilians don't get extorted and killed for calling the cops in 2020, especially in popular shopping districts. Edited December 11, 2020 by ChromaticDeath 4 Link to comment
Sabess Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) I still think the lack of RICO laws are an OOC realism issue as well as an IC crime issue. Just add RICO laws. Please. For the love of christ. Edited December 11, 2020 by Sabess 1 3 Link to comment
Daquan Kingston Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 14 hours ago, ChromaticDeath said: Nonsense. @rasbruu and myself both own businesses a stone's throw from Rockford Hills and we still get generic NPC bad guys coming in to shake us down. A legal roleplayer should not have to "learn the lay of the land" and "plan around" being extorted in the year of 2020 in a civilized western nation. This is not Chechnya, this is not Albania, this isn't Russia or Brazil. This is the United States of America. If you think the status quo of extortion roleplay isn't wrong I think you have a misconception as to what is realistic in the current day and age. Random civilians don't get extorted and killed for calling the cops in 2020, especially in popular shopping districts. I am not saying I disagree with you. In fact killing somebody will not give you any benefit as a criminal and that is very stupid on a mobster mindset. However before I took a loan to buy my new apartment, I bet you that just like me, every normal person IRL made sure to check and ask and analyze everything. I get it that people just want to play the game and put their vision into form, but sadly this is a heavy roleplay server and you should take it seriously with the risks and penalties your IC actions could have. P.S: For your information, the extortion criminality in Albania is extremely localized only in the suburban areas of the northren-most town of Shkodra & Elbasan in central Albania. It is called "fining" and it only occurs scarsely so I am not sure where you get your data from. Link to comment
Briutas Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 15 hours ago, Sabess said: I still think the lack of RICO laws are an OOC realism issue as well as an IC crime issue. Just add RICO laws. Please. For the love of christ. YES. Link to comment
shiroq Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 On 12/11/2020 at 9:53 AM, ChromaticDeath said: Extortion needs a serious, serious reform. In its current state, it is completely biased against legal roleplayers and requires no reason or rhyme behind it. Factions can walk into any business they want, ask for the owner, and the end result will always either be: The employees rat on the owner, who pays the group who provides no services at all for them in return for script money. The owner refuses to pay the group script money or goes to the police, resulting in the owner being subject to a CK. The employees say the owner isn't there, which is a temporary fix for a permanent issue. The player stops running their business altogether, Because they become disheartened. I have personally ran into a newer player who currently runs a restaurant I will leave unnamed who joined the server, in three weeks applied for a business, and immediately after receiving their property, were approached by East European Faction no. 143, who will also remain unnamed. They didn't want to do illegal roleplay in any capacity and were faced with a brick wall of options otherwise (having no connects in PD, SD, or illegal factions due to being new to the server), so they deleted their character and business both, and moved to a location where they could roleplay in peace. Not everyone wants to be part of your Tarantino film. There exist players on this server who want to have a good time running a legal business and not being bothered by 1920s Chicago mafia tactics. The current approach on not only extortion, but certain aspects of organized crime's interaction with legal characters and business owners both is laughable and seems like a rigged game in favor of mob rule. I'm sorry but this attitude is what is ruining the server standards Quote Not everyone wants to be part of your Tarantino film. Roleplay is not meant to be your scripted heaven of where you do whatever you want, the reason why roleplay is fun is because of these unexpected events and things that are completely out of your control, just like real life. If you control everything then might as well go roleplay in singleplayer because that's the same thing. Quote The player stops running their business altogether, Because they become disheartened. Why? I know of business owners that rake in 100k a week minimum some business owners earn on average 1 million a month in revenue and around 800k in profits. Is it really that disheartening to pay 5k a week? This mentality is what's completely wrong with the server, if I was a legal roleplayer and I was being extorted I would gladly pay that 5-10k a week because of the benefits that it bring to me. We all know that there is always idiots and people causing trouble in businesses from time to time, and that's where your "protection" comes in, contacts a way to boost your own business by having your "extortionists" call their friends to have a good time in your business etc. Are civilians currently at a disadvantage in extortion? Yes they are but let's be real here, the criminal community has asked and begged for investigations and RICO for years now. This issue is a completely IC issue that can be fixed, criminals are alaways going to abuse laws and systems and loopholes in those systems (IC). If PD is not doing investigations then maybe the civilian community should start asking for PD to do their damn jobs just like the criminal community has been begging for them to do for years now. If anyone is gonna give me the "Oh but PD doesn't want to sit in a car and watch nothing happen for hours just to investigate something" Well tough shit, criminals and criminal associates are often forced to stand around or sit around for hours when important meetings are happening just so they could advance through the faction and keep up with the realistic roleplay that the faction is portraying. Why is PD exempt form the "boring" parts of roleplay and only participate in chases and shootings? Quote There exist players on this server who want to have a good time running a legal business and not being bothered by 1920s Chicago mafia tactics. If you are on a roleplay server that tries to be realistic and you want to rp in some happy bubble where bad things never happen then maybe roleplay isn't for you. And if you think extortion is 1920's Chicago mafia tactics then you have not a single clue about crime. Most of these issues could be solved by PD taking more time to investigate criminal groups instead of chasing mallrat ricers, until PD steps up I don't see why criminals roleplayers should be oocly stopped from doing something that is completely IC. IRL if cities have huge crime rates and certain issues there is pressure on the Police departments to do something about it that's how it should be here too, but I guess only PD is allowed to do what they want while everyone else is forced to do everything even the boring things in rp. 1 1 Link to comment
knppel Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, shiroq said: This mentality is what's completely wrong with the server, if I was a legal roleplayer and I was being extorted I would gladly pay that 5-10k a week because of the benefits that it bring to me. We all know that there is always idiots and people causing trouble in businesses from time to time, and that's where your "protection" comes in Speaking out of experience not just on this server: No, it doesn't. ~89% of parties will be unable to actually protect your business, lacking the needed resources to spare ~10% would be able to do that, but certainly won't bugger with the generic troublemakers in a business (for which I honestly can't blame them- doing this for 5k/month in a business that opens regularly would make the model unattractive for the extortionists) the remaining ~1% that would have the resources and spare them for ic reasons at any time typically are beyond this business model ic, leaving it to the remaining 99% that one way or another don't actually offer much for the money except to personally stay away and not trash the place. 21 minutes ago, shiroq said: Roleplay is not meant to be your scripted heaven of where you do whatever you want, Same can be said to criminal players who expect to get through with no matter how dumb a crime constantly. What's out of balance is the needed effort from player side- I can walk into any business and demand money without to apply for anything , whereas to operate a business for the public (to also be extorted, for instance) one typically has to write up a novel why one's character would realistically do that- and still pay script money on top for the property, scripts, supply items, components, staff etc. Compare that with "running an extortion business" which I can basically start with a bat from a supermarket. Edited December 12, 2020 by knppel Link to comment
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