Official Status

[shot 2 da vein]

2 hours ago, eTaylor said:

If you need to roleplay for a badge then you’re here for the wrong reasons. You’re literally saying you need pretentious leaderboard-eque tags to motivate you. My dude, what about the roleplay itself? What about developing your character, settings your goals? What about moving your faction up. What the hell is a cute OOC label gonna do to your faction? 

You're horrendously off topic.

 

The point of this is to promote a high standard of roleplay, people can argue back and forth whether the offixial status was predicated on corrupt admins or good quality but its a matter of perspective.

 

You said in an earlier post that this would seek to directly destroy creativity but you refuse to acknowledge that the current system isn't doing just that by limiting peoples ability to create a faction at their own accord?

 

If you don't get the point of why this should be a thing, then you can't play devils advocate. Take your pseudo intellectualism elsewhere, my guy.

[Woona]

Building up your reputation IC is better than OOC reputation.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Woona

[Sinatra]

5 minutes ago, Dano said:

I think people are still not getting the main idea. But you are catching on in your second point about a benchmark. We are looking to create a benchmark, yes. We are looking to create something where factions can create a goal and eventually go down in history or else what is the purpose of all the role-play. It is to follow server history and hold a name as a gang or mafia for example. 

 

The current system promotes role-play, hands out weapons, drugs, etc. Sure it does. But it doesn't create long-term goals in-game and out of character. Take this as an example, what stops me from role-playing a Sheriff's Lieutenant? Why can't I create a character and role-play an active Sheriff's Lieutenant if that's what I want to do.

 

Our issue is people can come in and instantly create a faction, disregard a faction that has been open for two years and become a mafia boss, captain, or made guy instantly with no regard for history or the server's criminal underworld. Whether it be gangs, mafias, or anything, this is the issue we deal with in the illegal sector. If people are bored or don't feel like role-playing, they create something alone and act like they rule the server. 

 

If it were this easy, I would fulfill my exampled dream of becoming a Sheriff's Lieutenant and make a new character, even though I didn't get it in the actual faction.

I think this hits what we're trying to display. There is no faction more elitist than PD/SD, it's a purely OOCly fueled faction that goes as far as speaking in teamspeak on a daily basis. Everybody knows the atmosphere when they join, there is no secrecy in how these factions operate. Why are legal factions held to one standard but illegal factions have to be pooled together like communist Russia.

[Trupiano]

26 minutes ago, Dano said:

Our issue is people can come in and instantly create a faction, disregard a faction that has been open for two years and become a mafia boss, captain, or made guy instantly with no regard for history or the server's criminal underworld. 

There are two sides to this coin.

 

While I agree it's really shitty in LCN for people to just auto button themselves and pop up with new factions, it's perfectly acceptable given the actual IC LCN history on the server, San Andreas is open country.

 

Also if your going to cling to the IC history of "that faction that's been open for two years" you shouldn't leave out the fact that the predecessors who's faction they came out of now condemn their portrayal and hate the fact that their work is now associated with that current faction. The underboss literally didn't know what a sit down was OOC or IC.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Henning

[Gregory_Manno]

Interesting.

[yerro]

That issue you're referring to is with the quality of portrayal, not the system itself. Perhaps the faction management team should be more focused on establishing a balanced lore — while new factions don't have to roleplay "fresh off the boat" characters, it might make sense to start small as a new branch or something of the sort.

[LoneRider]

If you're hinting that what the server needs is more of an LSRP-style faction process then it's a huge NO from me. Some factions only got the official status due to their OOC friendships with certain staff members, and then the gun market was only controlled by two to four factions at a time, which is abysmal in my opinion. Getting drugs and guns shouldn't be a big deal, because we're portraying the USA, where it's very easy to get guns and drugs. 

You claim it will showcase quality roleplay, but this is something that is actually judged in-game, not because some people are better at editing screenshots, not to mention that anybody can contact their buddies OOCly and fabricate a scenario to be posted on the forums, therefore judging the quality of a faction by the screenshots they procure isn't gonna yield accurate results.

Overall, everything is fine as it is when it comes to illegal factions.

[Exploits]

9 minutes ago, Sinatra said:

I think this hits what we're trying to display. There is no faction more elitist than PD/SD, it's a purely OOCly fueled faction that goes as far as speaking in teamspeak on a daily basis. Everybody knows the atmosphere when they join, there is no secrecy in how these factions operate. Why are legal factions held to one standard but illegal factions have to be pooled together like communist Russia.

 Sort of diverging from the topic yourself now, aren't you?

 

I'm certainly not in favour of the 'old system' on LS:RP. Tying access to commands and exclusive perks to the official label limited who you could role-play with by default. I could really go on about the problems this caused beyond being an impediment to natural/emergent role-play, but nobody here wants to see this on GTA:W, so that's good. We're all generally in agreement that offering actual, tangible incentives (beyond something like a faction chat, anyway) is a no.

 

That certainly does raise the next question of "What's the point?" If the system doesn't offer anything other than a rubber stamp and an ego boost, why have it at all?

 

I'm not sure about the word 'elitism' and how it's cropping up in this debate. Pardon if I put words in anybody's mouths, but allow me to make a distinction: elitist =/= good role-player. I don't think anybody is legitimately claiming and arguing against an idea that would promote "good role-play", or "elitists". I think instead 'elitist' is referring to individuals who, at minimum, believe they are a good role-player, but also, that their role-play should be standard form, or deserves commendation. There's a difference between being critical and being obstinate, and you'll find that most elitists (as I once was) are rigidly fixed in their opinion of what role-play should be.

 

So what does all this talk of elitists and elitism have to do with this suggestion? Well, it's already been said that giving a faction an 'official' stamp tends to inflate people with egos like this. It doesn't necessarily follow that people in a faction, now official, immediately turn into ghoulish elitist role-play caricatures like the Valenti members of old (as I also once was! God we were insufferable). But it does follow that, regardless what those faction members do, their role-play has, very literally, been given a green light: that faction is now a model or example for similarly situated factions to follow for that same stamp. And what happens is usually something like an ebb and flow, where a unique faction shows up that stands out against 'the norm' is quickly 'officialized', and then other players emulate that faction until what was once unique is now 'the norm'. Then a unique faction shows up, and it stands out against that norm! Oh wait, no, we're back at it being repetitive and overdone again. Wait, what's this? Something new again?!

 

I probably sound like this,

 

(Or perhaps just, 'old man yells at cloud'.)

 

 ... but I want to affirm that I do not think this cycle is a bad thing, and it will also happen regardless of an official system. We factually do not need it! We already know that we don't want it to do anything for the faction, so our claim rests on the system improving role-play. It doesn't do that, though: it actually tends to narrow it towards an ever-changing point, and it does so through a system which is a decision by committee, whatever that committee may be. But again, whether we have this system, we will still see role-play cycle upward. What we have without it is simply more organic.

 

The notion that we need the server to rubber stamp factions as "Certified Fresh RP" ... or what? Or players will be swayed by impure, unorthodox role-play? They'll learn to role-play ... bad, or something? Whatever attracts people will attract them. Officiating that only certain factions are worthy of attention and marrying what role-play is as either exclusive to or approximating that style of role-play has only stymied actual creativity by, whether explicitly stating it or not, serving players a blueprint of what we consider to be 'the best' conduct.

 

We've got thousands of players. I'm very interested and excited to see what they would all come up with through their server experiences far more than I am interested in seeing who would win this supposed 'best mafia/gang/homeless camp' contest. This is a crown in search of a throne, and I ask you just stop carrying crowns around.

[sage]

20 hours ago, arkan said:

A system like this being put in place will not only reward long standing factions as many above have stated but will showcase the type of quality roleplay standards needed in the illegal scene. If implemented I think it will only serve the community for the better.

 

[eTaylor]

9 minutes ago, Exploits said:

The notion that we need the server to rubber stamp factions as "Certified Fresh RP" ... or what? Or players will be swayed by impure, unorthodox role-play? They'll learn to role-play ... bad, or something? Whatever attracts people will attract them. Officiating that only certain factions are worthy of attention and marrying what role-play is as either exclusive to or approximating that style of role-play has only stymied actual creativity by, whether explicitly stating it or not, serving players a blueprint of what we consider to be 'the best' conduct.

 

We've got thousands of players. I'm very interested and excited to see what they would all come up with through their server experiences far more than I am interested in seeing who would win this supposed 'best mafia/gang/homeless camp' contest. This is a crown in search of a throne, and I ask you just stop carrying crowns around.

 

47 minutes ago, Woona said:

Building up your reputation IC is better OOC.

 

^ This. You can already see the elitism busting off this thread with people already showing that they’re conniving individuals navigating an artificially created environment trying to pull more to themselves. You already got people insinuating the implementation of social authority figures that would then be posed to “rule” over the rest. In this thread you can literally see people already trying to police, with force, what the “right” idea is. I’m sorry, but I certainly don’t plan on yielding to anyone because they’ve been appointed a title. You can blow your horn OOC all you want, you all bleed the same IC.  You can promote good roleplay without such a corrupt, susceptible and destructive system. This isn’t LSRP.